Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion: May 21, 2002

Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms
15910 Val Verde Drive
Houston TX, 77083-4921
713-918-2947
herald@sca.org
For the March 2002 meetings, printed May 21, 2002
To all the College of Arms and to all others to whom this missive comes, from François Laurel, Zenobia Wreath, and Mari Pelican, health and good friendship.
This letter contains the issues raised in the May 2002 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience.
A REQUEST, PLEASE: It would help our processing somewhat if you comment on Laurel issues and pends using the LoPaD as if it were an LoI (instead of including Laurel comments without a header or number). If it's not inconvenient, please use the date on the LoPaD as an "LoI date", use the numbers provided on each item, and give the name as spelled on the LoPaD, exactly as you would for a new LoI (and without reference to the item's original kingdom, original date, or original number). For this letter, your comments might look like
	Laurel LoPaD of May 21, 2002
	1. Andre la Flamme. [Your knowledgable and well-reasoned commentary goes here.]
	2. Torcall mac Grigair. [More commentary here.]
or however you usually format your commentary. If you don't provide the header, item number, and exact name, we just have to look them up and insert or change them.
As with an May LoI, these issues are currently scheduled for the Laurel meetings in September 2002. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than July 31, 2002. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than August 28, 2002.
1. Andre la Flamme. Device. Per chevron Or and chevronelly gules and Or, a flame gules within a bordure azure. 
The bordure azure was not mentioned in the Letter of Intent. This must therefore be pended for further research.
(This item was originally item 1 on Atlantia's LoI of November 16, 2001.)
2. Torcall mac Grigair. Device. Erminois, on a pile vert a crane in its vigilance argent beaked and legged gules. 
The crane was blazoned as proper in the letter of intent. This must be pended for further conflict research.
(This item was originally item 13 on Drachenwald's LoI of November 16, 2001.)
3. Wulfgar Neumann. Device. Gyronny sable and argent, a bordure counterchanged. 
Bordures may be counterchanged over a gyronny field. We have many period examples of bordures compony, which are almost the same in appearance as bordures gyronny. Because the bordure counterchanged has large enough pieces to maintain its identifiability, and it looks like a common multiply divided period bordure, it may be accepted without explicit documentation of a bordure counterchanged on a gyronny field.
The SCA currently protects the Campbell quarter of the modern Scottish arms of Campbell of Argyll, Gyronny Or and sable. An earlier form of these arms is Gyronny argent and sable, and we have been asked to consider whether this form should be protected by the SCA. The Gyronny argent and sable version of the Campbell arms is found in David Lindsay of the Mount's 1542 roll and the 15th C Scots Roll, as well as a 1601 portrait of Duncan Campbell of Glenorchy (a cousin of the Earl of Argyll) as seen in McKean, The Scottish Chateau: The Country House of Renaissance Scotland, plate 13 and pp. 137 - 138. Thistle Stall Plates, by Charles Burnett (Ross Herald) and Leslie Hodgson, p. 22, also mentions the Lindsay form using argent and sable, and states that "Pont's Manuscript (c. 1624) is apparently the first appearance of the quartered shield as used today". The illustration of the modern form in Thistle Stall Plates shows the modern form curently protected in the SCA.
If the older form of the Campbell arms is important enough to protect in the SCA, then Wulfgar's arms conflict. There is one CD for adding the bordure but no difference by RfS X.4.a for reversing the order of tinctures on a gyronny field. This submission must therefore be pended for consideration of whether the argent and sable version of the Campbell arms should be protected.
(This item was originally item 14 on the Outland's LoI of November 17, 2001.)

Pray know that I remain
In service

François la Flamme
Laurel Principal King of Arms