Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion (LoPaD): June 23, 2004

Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms

PO Box 31755
Billings, MT 59107-1755

For the March 2004 meetings, printed June 23, 2004

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from François Laurel, Zenobia Wreath, and Mari Pelican, greetings.

This letter contains the issues raised in the March 2004 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience. As with a June LoI, these matters are currently scheduled for the Laurel meetings in October 2004. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than August 31, 2003. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than September 30, 2003.

  1. Elena of Calontir. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Argent, a saltire azure between in fess two Lacy knots vert.

    Nebuly and Brachet requested that we pend this armory for consideration of whether the Russian Naval Flag (before 1917) should be protected by the S.C.A. as an important flag. Nebuly stated:

    At the end of the 17th century, Peter the Great of Russia visited western Europe. Following this visit he decided to adopt a variation of the Dutch flag as a civil ensign for Russian ships. [This is now the national flag] ... Peter the Great also adopted a flag for the Russian navy, which was white with the blue diagonal cross of St. Andrew.

    The flag was used by the Russian navy until the Communist Revolution of 1917. The flag is historically significant and deserves to be protected.

    Brachet stated:

    Walraven notes that the Imperial Navy of Russia flew "Argent a saltire Azure." This will be familiar to those who are from Europe and also those who play [the game] Diplomacy(TM), of which there are quite a few in the SCA. (Note - he came up with the identification without use of references.) We feel that this at least ought to be pended for a decision on whether or not the Imperial Russian Navy is important enough to protect.

    If the Russian Naval Flag is protected, this armory will conflict with it, with only one CD for adding the secondary charge group.

    Submitted under the name Elena Woods.

    (This submission was item 11 on Calontir's LoI of November 8, 2003.)

  2. Pierre l'Escot. Device. Per pale sable and argent, a winged woman statant affronty vested of a cloak, maintaining in her dexter hand a rose and in her sinister hand a snake, and in chief a crescent inverted, all counterchanged.

    The woman is not exactly "vested" (clothed) in the cloak, as blazoned. She is (from the front view) almost entirely naked; the cloak only 'clothes' her shoulders and arms, and otherwise hangs down behind her. It is not clear whether this, or any other, blazon will adequately reproduce the emblazon. RfS VII.7.b states in pertinent part, "Elements must be reconstructible in a recognizable form from a competent blazon."

    There are identifiability issues concerning the snake. The woman isn't exactly "maintaining" (holding) the snake in her hand, which would imply a view of almost the entire snake (head and neck on one side of the hand, tail dangling from the other side.) Instead, the snake's head and neck are extending out from under the place where the cloak overlays her shoulders and arms, through her fingers, and the head is peeking out from between her fingers. RfS VIII.3 states in pertinent part, "Identifiable elements may be rendered unidentifiable ... by being obscured by other elements of the design."

    Concerns were raised that this armory might be overly modern style. RfS VIII.4.d states in part, "Generally modern style in the depiction of individual elements or the total design may not be registered."

    Lastly, concerns were raised as to whether the armory had excessive religious allusions to neo-Pagan goddess symbolism. RfS IX.2 states in pertinent part, "Magical or religious symbolism that is excessive ... will not be registered."

    We feel it is necessary for the College to discuss these issues further before rendering a decision, particularly the matter of excessive religious allusion. This is thus being pended for further consideration.

    (This submission was item 24 on Drachenwald's LoI of September 25, 2003.)

  3. Safya al-Mughanniya bint Ziyad al-Misri. Device. Per pall argent sable and vert, a lotus flower affronty sable and two hands of Fatima argent.

    And in a lovely metaphor for the continuity of the Laurel office (and such subsidiary offices as it may have), the last item ruled on during this Wreath's tenure (and listed last in the LoAR) is pended for further research. The blazon on the Letter of Intent had the vert and sable tinctures on the field inadvertently switched, and the College could not detect this error.

    (This submission was item 14 on the Outlands LoI of November 27, 2003.)

  4. Tace of Foxele. Badge. Gules, three holly leaves conjoined in pall and fructed argent.

    The leaves were tinctured vert on the Letter of Intent, and no correction was received until February 2004, after the end of the primary commentary period for this November 2003 Calontir LoI. The commenters were not able to accurately deduce the correct tincture so this must be pended for further conflict research.

    Some questions were also raised about the blazon of the holly leaf "cluster." We have reblazoned this design so it may be accurately reproduced from the blazon.

    (This submission was item 27 on Calontir's LoI of November 8, 2003.)

Pray know that I remain

In service

François la Flamme
Laurel Principal King of Arms

Created at 2004-06-20T16:38:08