Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion (LoPaD): July 29, 2005

Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms

16308 SE 165th St
Renton, WA 98058-8221

For the May 2005 meetings, printed July 29, 2005

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from Elisabeth Laurel, Gwenllian Wreath, and Margaret Pelican, greetings.

This letter contains the issues raised in the May 2005 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience. As with a July 2005 LoI, these matters are currently scheduled for the Pelican and Wreath meetings in November 2005. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than September 30, 2005. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than October 31, 2005.

  1. edn mac Suibne. Alternate name Khalid al-Nasiri.

    Commenters raised the question whether the byname al-Nasiri was used in period. Part of the problem was that the submitter's documentation was misquoted. The summary says "Sultans using the byname al-Nasiri can be found in Robert Irwin's The Middle East in the Middle Ages: The Early Mamluk Sultanate 1250-1382. Arghun al-Nasiri served as Sultan on three occasions, the most recent between 1310 and 1341," but this is incorrect. The photocopy of the citation says that Arghun al-Nasiri served as na'ib of Eqypt three times. This makes the man in the cited material a governor of a territory appointed by a Sultan, not the Sultan himself. A websearch uncovered some other instances of the name al-Nasari. The name Taynal al-Nasari, appears in an inscription in Tripoli dated to 1336 (; at that time, the man was Emir in Tripoli. The website "Islamic Art/Late Medieval Art" lists a lamp inscribed by Sayf al-Din Shaykhu al-Nasiri, who the site describes as "a former mamluk of the Sultan al-Nasir Muhammad."

    These citations do raise the spector of presumption. All the men bearing the name al-Nasiri are of high rank -- the title Emir/Amir is the SCA equivalent for prince, while naqib is the equivalent for viscount. Historically, some Emir were the equivalent of independent princes while others were temporary governors. In addition, in this case, the al-Nasiri name may be associated with officials specifically appointed to important positions by the Sultan and may constitute a form of title. This is unclear from these citations.Therefore, we are pending this item to allow discussion of how to address presumption againsts bearers of the title Emir and naqib or na'ib, and also to discuss whether al-Nasiri is an honorific equivalent to a rank or title.

    This was item 1 on the An Tir letter of January 21, 2005.

Pray know that I remain,

In service,

Elisabeth de Rossignol
Laurel Principal Queen of Arms

Created at 2005-08-11T00:45:31