Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion (LoPaD): November 7, 2005

Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms

16308 SE 165th St
Renton, WA 98058-8221

For the August 2005 meetings, printed November 7, 2005

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from Elisabeth Laurel, Jeanne Marie Wreath, and Margaret Pelican, greetings.

This letter contains the issues raised in the August 2005 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience. As with a November 2005 LoI, these matters are currently scheduled for the Pelican and Wreath meetings in March 2006. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than January 31, 2006. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than February 28, 2006.

  1. Johnathan Crusadene Whitewolf the Younger. Badge. Argent, a clenched gauntlet aversant gules, a bordure rayonny quarterly sable and gules.

    Several commenters noted that this appears to be a charged sun. This is a function of the round badge form used - when displayed on anything other than a roundel this resemblance is non-existent.

    Under current precedents this conflicts with the Red Hand of Ulster, Argent, a sinister hand appaumy gules, protected as an important non-SCA augmentation for Great Britain. There is a CD for adding the bordure. There is no difference between a hand and gauntlet, no difference between a dexter hand/gauntlet and a sinister hand/gauntlet, and no difference for appaumy vs. aversant. Nor is there a difference between a hand "displayed" and one clenched: "[a dexter gauntlet clenched apaumy vs a dexter gauntlet appaumy] The clenching is an artistic detail which does not contribute difference. (William MacGregor, May 1998 p. 22)".

    This is being pended to discuss two issues. First, as the Red Hand of Ulster is an augmentation should it be protected only when it appears to be an augmentation? The Glossary of Terms currently lists "A sinister hand appaumy gules on argent canton or inescutcheon"; however, we currently protect this no matter what form it is in. Second, should there be a CD between an open hand or gauntlet and a closed hand or gauntlet?

    This was item 9 on the Atenveldt letter of April 22, 2005.

Pray know that I remain,

In service,

Elisabeth de Rossignol
Laurel Principal Queen of Arms

Created at 2005-12-05T17:31:24