Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion (LoPaD): July 8, 2006

Society for Creative Anachronism

College of Arms

16308 SE 165th St

Renton, WA 98058-8221

+1-425-277-0763

herald@sca.org

For the April 2006 meetings, printed July 8, 2006

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from Elisabeth Laurel, Jeanne Marie Wreath, and Margaret Pelican, greetings.

This letter contains the issues raised in the April 2006 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience. As with a July 2006 LoI, these matters are currently scheduled for the Pelican and Wreath meetings in November 2006. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than September 30, 2006. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than October 31, 2006.

1. Avenel Kellough. Badge. Sable, a demon's head erased Or.

[Note for the electronic LoPaD: since this item was pended for paperwork, not for discussion, no commentary should be sent in for this item. It is kept on the electronic LoPaD just to have the same numbering as on the paper copy. The paper LoPaD text:]

This badge conflicts with Talanque, Azure, a horned demon's head erased Or. A letter of permission was received from Rowen Lynn of Woodvine as the executor of Talanque's estate in the modern world; however, proof that she is actually the executor was not included. This is pended until the May 2006 LoAR to allow receipt of that proof.

This was item 3 on the Caid letter of December 21, 2005.

2. Elizabeth Blackthorne. Device. Argent, two roses in saltire gules slipped and leaved sable, a chief triangular purpure goutty d'eau.

The tincture of the roses was omitted from the LoI; they are gules. The device is pended to allow conflict checking under the correct tinctures.

This was item 3 on the Ansteorra letter of November 23, 2005.

3. Stiamhna Ó Miadhaigh. Household name House O Miadhaigh.

The submitter requested a household name authentic for Gaelic. Significant new information about Irish Gaelic household names came to our attention after the commenting process for this LoAR was over. Because this information has the chance of significantly changing the way household names in Gaelic are registered, it is important for the College to see and consider it before it can be used in the decision making process. Please consider the information below, and discuss the questions presented at the end of this information.

The information below is a summarization of a document Rowel brought to our notice during the proof pass stage of this LoAR. The handout for Mari Elpeth nic Bryan's class titled "Constructing SCA Household Names Using Irish Gaelic Family and Clan Name Models", presented at the 2006 Known World Heraldic Symposium, covers examples of family and clan names found in the various medieval Irish annals. The handout focuses on such usages in the 8th - 11th C, although the same forms are also found in later centuries. The section of the handout titled "Terms used to refer to the family as a group" notes:

-	Uí Néill 'grandsons/descendants [of] Niall'

-	Clann Néill 'children/descendants [of] Niall'

-	Muintear Néill 'family/people [of] Niall'

Regarding the use of Clann in this situation, Woulfe [Irish Names and Surnames] (p. 686) states that "Muintear and Clann which occur so frequently in clan-names are also used to form the collective plural of family names, as Muintear Loingsigh, the O'Lynches, Clann tShíthigh, the MacSheehys, or Sheehys." Woulfe (pp. 25-26) states that "Muinntear is used in the case of Ó-surnames; Clann, with a few exceptions, is confined to Mac-surnames. Siol is now only used in literature. Muinntear and Clann are sometimes prefixed to the gen. case of the surname, as: Muinntear Ui Cheallacháin, the O'Callaghans; Clann Mhic Conmara, the MacNamaras." [Note, Woulfe is inconsistent regarding whether the spelling is Muinntear or Muintear. On pp. 25-26, he uses two 'n's. In the "Clan-Names" section on pp. 685-696, he uses one 'n'.]

I am unsure whether the use of Muintear and Clann with the genitive case of the surname (including the particle, as in Woulfe's examples) is a post-period practice. The only examples I have found so far in the annals only use this construction when specifically referring to children of a chieftain with a title that is the same as the surname. So, for example, children of a chieftain with the title of Ó Néill would literally be clann Uí Néill, 'children [of the] Ó Néill'.

The handout also notes that:

...household name takes one of the following forms (where "genitive of given" indicates the genitive form of the head of household's GIVEN name and "family name" indicates the head of household's FAMILY name).

Referencing the head of household's FAMILY name only:

-	household name meaning

-	Uí [family name] "grandsons, descendants of ..."

-	Clann [family name] "children, descendants of ..."

-	Muintear [family name] "family, people of ..."

Note: I do not know if Uí is registerable as a household designator. If not, register using either Clann or Muintear.

Referencing the head of household's GIVEN name only:

-	household name meaning

-	Clann [genitive of given] "children, descendants of ..."

-	Siol [genitive of given] "seed, progeny of ..."

-	Sliocht [genitive of given] "progeny of ..."

Referencing the head of household's FULL name:

-	household name meaning

-	Clann [genitive of full name] "children, descendants of ..."

-	Sliocht [genitive of full name] "progeny of ..."

Given this information, these questions are relevant:

-	Can/should Uí "grandsons/descendants" be used as a designator for a Gaelic household name formed from an ancestor's given name, or from the full name of an ancestor?

-	In a name such as House O Miadhaigh, does the designator "House" function like the word "Clann" in the examples given above, making a name with this construction a presumptuous claim?

-	Considering the answers to the questions above, what form of this name is both registerable and best preserves the sound of the originally submitted name?

Thank you for your discussion and attention in this matter. For those interested, the entire handout may be accessed at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/ClassHandouts/Irish_Clan_Names_v2.doc.

This was item 34 on the Middle letter of December 16, 2005.

4. Windhaven, Barony of. Augmentation. Azure, a sea-pithon within a laurel wreath, and for augmentation a chief Or a bunch of grapes between two Catherine wheels azure.

[Note for the electronic LoPaD: since this item was pended for paperwork, not for discussion, no commentary should be sent in for this item. It is kept on the electronic LoPaD just to have the same numbering as on the paper copy. The paper LoPaD text:]

No petition accompanied this submission. Any change to a territory's arms must be accompanied by a valid petition. As the wording of the Administrative Handbook is not as clear as it could be, we are pending this until the May LoAR to allow receipt of the paperwork.

This was item 7 on the Northshield letter of December 30, 2005.

Pray know that I remain,

In service,

Elisabeth de Rossignol

Laurel Principal Queen of Arms