Laurel Letter of Pends and Discussion (LoPaD): March 23, 2007

Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms

16308 SE 165th St
Renton, WA 98058-8221

For the December 2006 meetings, printed March 23, 2007

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from Elisabeth Laurel, Jeanne Marie Wreath, and Margaret Pelican, greetings.

This letter contains the issues raised in the December 2006 LoAR for CoA discussion. The text in this letter is copied verbatim from that LoAR; it is provided here for convenience. As with a March 2007 LoI, these matters are currently scheduled for the Pelican and Wreath meetings in July 2007. Original commentary must be in the College's hands no later than May 31, 2007. Responses and rebuttals to commentary must be in the College's hands no later than June 30, 2007.

  1. Thomas Makconoch. Name.

    Listed on the LoI as Thomas Makconoch, the name was originally submitted as Tomas MacDonagh and changed at kingdom. No mention was made on the LoI of either the original form or the reasons for the change. As we have said many times, failure to mention changes made at kingdom deny the commenters for the College of Arms the ability to properly evaluate a name and suggest possible changes. In this case, not knowing the original form made it impossible for the commenters to evaluate whether there were closer names similar in sound and in the period desired by the submitter. We are pending this name to let the commenters evaluate this name with the full history of the submission in place.

    The documentation on the form included the following information:

    Tomas is a masculine name found in Reaney and Wilson sub Thomas, with the example Hugo Tomas in 1317.

    MacDonagh is a header spelling in MacLysaght Surnames of Ireland from the Gaelic Mac Donnachadha.

    The submitter cares most about sound if changes must be made and requests a name authentic to 12th-14th C Scotch [sic].

    The following summary appeared on the LoI for this item.

    Symon Freser of Lovat, 13th and 14th Century Scottish Names, <>, lists Thom/Thomas variants with a frequency of 7.

    Arianwhy verch Catemael, 15th Century Scots Names from Dunfermline <[pct]7Eliana/names/scots/dunfermline.html>, cites two Thomas names in the data set.

    Makconoch is dated to 1506 in Black s.n. Macconachie. McDonchy is dated to 1582 s.n. Macdonachie. M'Donquhy is dated to 1596 under the same header.

    One item for the college to consider whether Black (or other articles on the web) shows names dated from the 12th-14th C that are closer in sound and appearance to the submitted McDonagh than Makconoch. Some forms to consider from Black are MacDunkan 1264 s.n. MacDuncan, mac Dunac 1204 s.n. MacDunec.

    His device was registered under the holding name Thomas of Wyewoode.

    This was item 14 on the An Tir letter of August 29, 2006.

Pray know that I remain,

In service,

Elisabeth de Rossignol
Laurel Principal Queen of Arms

Created at 2007-03-25T15:13:50