Society for Creative Anachronism
College of Arms

427 W Ave
Spokane, WA 99203
+1 509 570 4189
laurel@heraldry.sca.org

For the June 2019 meetings, printed August 29, 2019

To all the College of Arms and all others who may read this missive, from Juliana Laurel, Alys Pelican, and Cormac Wreath, greetings.

* From Wreath: Pending for Redraw

On the December 2018 LoAR I proposed a policy change to armory that was determined by Wreath to require a redraw prior to registration. Rather than returning armory for redraw by the submitter or consulting herald, who would need to interpret Wreath's descriptions of the issue, instead the Wreath office will pend the submission, provide new emblazons for submitter approval, and run said emblazons through a fast-tracked "Letter of Pends for Redraw," or LoPfR.

Commentary on this policy was overwhelmingly positive, and we are implementing this policy, starting with this letter. Nine pieces of armory were identified as requiring a redraw, and emblazons were sent out. Every submitter responded approving the revised artwork prior to the publication of this letter.

The process for pends for redraw shall be the following:

As soon as possible after the decision meeting where Wreath identifies the need for armory to be redrawn, either the Sovereign or an appointed deputy will create a new emblazon. Where possible, the existing artwork will be used; if necessary, artwork will be sourced as much as possible from period rolls of arms, as well as the Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry (many thanks to Bruce Batonvert for permission to use his art).

Once the new emblazon is prepared and approved (if not prepared directly) by Wreath, the art will be sent to the submissions herald of the submitter's kingdom, requesting that they reach out to the submitter for approval. A LoPfR will also be prepared, scheduled for release when the LoAR is published. If the submitter approves the artwork prior to the publication of the LoAR and LoPfR, it will be noted on the pended item.

* From Pelican: Using Lingua Societatis

When requesting the lingua Societatis form of a descriptive byname in a language other than English, please remember to document the modern phrase that the submitter wants. Pelican and our staff are fluent in many languages, but not in every language that is used in the Society. For example, this month we had a request for a lingua Societatis form in modern Swedish that provided no evidence supporting the requested modern Swedish form. Fortunately, we were able to fill in the blanks, otherwise we would have been required to return the submission. Modern forms for lingua Societatis can be documented with modern dictionaries, as long as English translations are provided, or with modern English to language dictionaries.

* From Palimpsest: Changes to SENA NPN3C

The March 28 Palimpsest Rules Letter proposed an update to SENA NPN.3.C, Nonpersonal Name Conflict. We are approving these changes with some added examples.

SENA NPN3C

C. Standards for Identity Conflict: To be clear of conflict, the substantive elements of two names must be substantially different in sound and appearance. Matters such as meaning, language, etymological origin, etc., are completely irrelevant, as conflict is a modern concept. Designators and the prepositions or articles which link them to the substantive elements do not count for difference (though they can be sufficient to allow registration with permission to conflict). Only sound and appearance of the substantive elements are considered for difference. Thus, the Latinized form of a name may be clear of conflict from the vernacular form. While we do not go out of our way to consider variant pronunciations, we do consider important period and modern pronunciations of name elements.

For a pair of non-personal names to be substantially different, the substantive elements of two non-personal names must be different in sound and appearance under the standards laid out below. This entails meeting at least one standard for substantial difference in sound and at least one standard for substantial difference in appearance. Substantive elements are compared as complete items, even if the elements have different capitalization or spacing.

For example, in House of Lancastre, Lancastre is the substantive element; in Grimwithshire, Grimwith is the substantive element. In the case of House of the Black Bear, Black Bear is the substantive element. Substantive elements are compared as complete items, so the Shire of Southam Ton conflicts with the Shire of Southamton, because the substantive elements are the same, except for changes in spacing and capitalization. Because the designator does not contribute difference, Shire of Southam Ton also conflicts with Barony of Southamton. The Order of the Whistle does not conflict with the Order of the Whistle of Drachenwald, because the substantive elements being compared are Whistle and Whistle of Drachenwald.

Analyzing substantial changes in sound often requires counting sound changes. Under these standards, a single sound is defined as a consonant sound, vowel sound, or diphthong (two vowels combined in a single syllable).

For example, the English tavern name element Hat has three sounds: the consonant sound represented by 'H', the vowel sound represented by 'a', and the consonant sound represented by 't'. For example, in the English place name element Down, the 'o' and the 'w' combine to form a single sound, the diphthong 'ow'. Thus, Down has three sounds, the consonant sound represented by 'D', the diphthong 'ow', and the consonant sound represented by 'n'. For example, in the English place name element Throp, the 't' and 'h' combine to make a single consonant sound. Thus, Throp has four sounds: the consonant sound represented by 'th', the consonant sound represented by 'r', the vowel sound represented by 'o', and the consonant sound represented by 'p'.

A change to appearance involves the insertion, deletion, or substitution of a letter or space. Changes to accents and punctuation do not contribute to substantial changes in appearance. Changes between upper- and lowercase also do not contribute to substantial changes in appearance.

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C. Standards for Identity Conflict: To be clear of conflict, the substantive elements of two names must be substantially different in sound and appearance. Matters such as meaning, language, etymological origin, etc., are completely irrelevant, as conflict is a modern concept. Designators and the prepositions or articles which link them to the substantive elements do not count for difference (though they can be sufficient to allow registration with permission to conflict). Only sound and appearance of the substantive elements are considered for difference. Thus, the Latinized form of a name may be clear of conflict from the vernacular form. While we do not go out of our way to consider variant pronunciations, we do consider important period and modern pronunciations of name elements.

For a pair of non-personal names to be substantially different, the substantive elements of two non-personal names must be different in sound and appearance under the standards laid out below. Substantive elements may be different in sound under This entails meeting at least one standard and appearance under another standard. for substantial difference in sound and at least one standard for substantial difference in appearance. Substantive elements are compared as complete items, even if the elements have different capitalization or spacing.

For example, in House of Lancastre, Lancastre is the substantive element; in Grimwithshire, Grimwith is the substantive element. In the case of House of the Black Bear, Black Bear is the substantive element. Additionally, Substantive elements are compared as complete items, so the Shire of South Hamton Southam Ton conflicts with the Shire of Southamton, because the substantive elements are the same, except for changes in spacing and capitalization. Because the designator does not contribute difference, Shire of Southam Ton and Shire also conflicts with Barony of Southamton, because the substantive elements are the same, just with different spacing and capitalization. . The Order of the Whistle does not conflict with the Order of the Whistle of Drachenwald, because the substantive elements being compared are Whistle and Whistle of Drachenwald.

Analyzing substantial changes in sound often requires counting sound changes. Under these standards, a single sound is defined as a consonant sound, vowel sound, or diphthong (two vowels combined in a single syllable).

For example, the English tavern name element Hat has three sounds: the consonant sound represented by 'H', the vowel sound represented by 'a', and the consonant sound represented by 't'. For example, in the English place name element Down, the 'o' and the 'w' combine to form a single sound, the diphthong 'ow'. Thus, Down has three sounds, the consonant sound represented by 'D', the diphthong 'ow', and the consonant sound represented by 'n'. For example, in the English place name element Throp, the 't' and 'h' combine to make a single consonant sound. Thus, Throp has four sounds: the consonant sound represented by 'th', the consonant sound represented by 'r', the vowel sound represented by 'o', and the consonant sound represented by 'p'.

A change to appearance involves the insertion, deletion, or substitution of a letter or space. Changes to accents and punctuation do not contribute to substantial changes in appearance. Changes between upper- and lowercase also do not contribute to substantial changes in appearance.

SENA NPN3C1

1. Changes to the Sound of Two Syllables: Names are substantially different in sound if changes to the substantive element affect the sound of at least two syllables (including adding, removing, or reordering them). If the changes only affect adjacent sounds, they must affect more than two sounds to be considered different under this standard.

For example, College of Saint Claris is substantially different in sound from College of Santa Clara because two syllables change in sound, and another is added. Barony of Denituna is substantially different from Barony of Denton, because one syllable has changed and two have been added. While the names are etymologically linked (with the first an earlier Latinized version of the second name), multiple syllables have difference in sound and appearance.

For example, Sign of the White Eagle is not substantially different in sound from Sign of the Whyt Egle, because a common pronunciation of the substantive elements is identical. Hamdon House is not substantially different in sound from Hapton House; the changes affect two syllables, but the sounds in question (the md and pt group in the middle of the first word) are adjacent.

For example, Order of the Wolf and Falcon is substantially different from Order of the Falcon and Wolf and Blanche Rose Pursuivant is substantially different from Rose Blanche Pursuivant. In both cases, the substantive element has been reordered. Reordering of the substantive element and the designator does not clear conflict, so House of Lancaster is not substantially different from Lancaster House.

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1. Changes to the Sound of Two Syllables: Names are substantially different in sound if changes in sound and appearance to the substantive element affect the sound of at least two syllables (including adding, removing, or reordering them). If the changes only affect adjacent letters or sounds, they must affect more than two letters or sounds, in general. Change in spacing between elements counts as a change in appearance, but is not sounds to be considered a change in sound.different under this standard.

For example, College of Saint Claris is substantially different from College of in sound from College of Santa Clara because two syllables change in both sound and appearance, sound, and another is added. Barony of Denituna is substantially different from Barony of Denton, because one syllable has changed and two have been added. While the names are etymologically linked (with the first an earlier Latinized version of the second name), multiple syllables have difference in sound and appearance.

For example, Sign of the White Eagle is not substantially different in sound from Sign of the Whyt Egle; while they are substantially different in appearance, they are not substantially different in sound. , because a common pronunciation of the substantive elements is identical. Hamdon House is not substantially different from Hampton in sound from Hapton House; the changes affect two syllables, but only two adjacent letters and their the sounds in question (the md and mptpt group in the middle of the first word).word) are adjacent.

For example, Order of the Wolf and Falcon is substantially different from Order of the Falcon and Wolf and Blanche Rose Pursuivant is substantially different from Rose Blanche Pursuivant. In both cases, the substantive element has been reordered. Reordering of the substantive element and the designator does not clear conflict, so House of Lancaster is not substantially different from Lancaster House.

SENA NPN3C2

2. Substantial Change to the Sound of One Syllable: Names are substantially different in sound if a single syllable in their substantive element (excluding articles, prepositions, and conjunctions, such as de, the, or and) is changed in sound as described here. The addition or removal of a syllable makes two names substantially different in sound. Two names are also substantially different in sound if the sound of a syllable is substantially changed in one of the following ways. If a vowel and the consonant or group of consonants on one side of this vowel is completely different, we consider a syllable to be substantially changed. When the sounds of the consonant or group of consonants on both sides of a vowel are completely different, we also consider the syllable to be substantially changed.

For example, the Shire of Charford is substantially different from Shire of Northcharford, as a syllable is removed. Similarly, House of Charring is substantially different from House of Charring Cross, as a syllable is removed.

For example, Canton of Caldbek is substantially different in sound from Canton of Caldwell, because the consonants on each side of the vowel in the second syllable of the substantive elements are different. The branch name Canton of Caldbek is also significantly different in sound from Barony of Birkbek; in this case, the consonants on each side of the vowel and the vowel in the first syllable of the substantive element are different. Northwood House is substantially different in sound from Southwood House: comparing the syllables North- and South-, we see that the first consonant group is completely changed, as is the sound of the vowel. (The second consonant group in this syllable shares the -th sound, so cannot contribute difference under this rule.)

For example, Caldwell Herald is not substantially different in sound from Coldwell Herald; the change only affects the vowel sound of the first syllable. The Green Band is not substantially different in sound from Green House, because no change has been made to the substantive element Green (excluding the).

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2. Substantial Change to the Sound of One Syllable: Names are substantially different in sound if a single syllable in their substantive element (excluding articles, prepositions, and conjunctions, such as de, the, or and) is changed in both sound and appearance as described here. The addition or removal of a syllable makes two names substantially different in sound. Two names are also substantially different in sound if the sound of a syllable is substantially changed in sound one of the following ways. If a vowel and appearance. This means that the vowel and the consonant (or or group of consonants) consonants on one side of the vowel is different between the two names. In either case, the change in spelling (including addition or removal of letters) must affect at least two letters in that this vowel is completely different, we consider a syllable to be substantial.substantially changed. When the sounds of the consonant or group of consonants on both sides of a vowel are completely different, we also consider the syllable to be substantially changed.

For example, the Shire of Charford is substantially different from Shire of Northcharford, as a syllable is removed. Similarly, House of Charring is substantially different from House of Charring Cross, as a syllable is removed.

For example, Canton of Caldbek is substantially different in sound from Canton of Caldwell , because the consonants on each side of the vowel in the second syllable of the substantive elements are different. The branch name Canton of Caldbek is also significantly different in sound from Barony of Birkbek; in this case, the consonants on each side of the vowel and from Barony of Birkbek; in each case one the vowel in the first syllable of the substantive element is changed in both sound and appearance. are different. Northwood House is substantially different in sound from Southwood House because the initial syllable of the substantive element is changed in both sound : comparing the syllables North- and appearance (two letters are changed). South-, we see that the first consonant group is completely changed, as is the sound of the vowel. (The second consonant group in this syllable shares the -th sound, so cannot contribute difference under this rule.)

For example, Caldwell Herald is not substantially different in sound from Coldwell Herald; the change only affects the vowel sound (and a single letter). of the first syllable. The Green Band is not substantially different in sound from Green House, because no change has been made to the substantive element Green (excluding the).

For example, the Shire of Charford is substantially different from Shire of Northcharford, as a syllable is removed. Similarly, House of Charring is substantially different from House of Charring Cross, as a syllable is removed.

SENA NPN3C

3. Substantial Change to the Sound of a Single-Syllable Name Element: Two names whose substantive elements are two words or less and have a comparable single-syllable name element (excluding articles and prepositions, such as de and the) are eligible for this rule. Comparable single-syllable name elements are substantially different in sound if a group of adjacent vowels or of adjacent consonants within a word is completely changed, so that they have no sound in common. In rare cases, the sound may still be too similar for this rule to clear the conflict. On a case by case basis, two-syllable name elements may be eligible for this rule, such as Harry and Mary.

For example, House of the White Cat is substantially different in sound from House of the White Hat; each has a single syllable word in the substantive element with an initial consonant cluster that is different in sound. Bull House is substantially different in sound from Birch House; each has a single syllable word with a final consonant cluster that is different in sound and appearance. Round House is not substantially different in sound from Broun House because the r and Br groups share a sound, as do the nd and n consonant groups.

For example, College of Saint John is substantially different in sound from College of Saint Jayn, because the vowel sounds are completely changed. However, College of Saint John of Essex is not substantially different in sound from College of Saint Jayn of Essex because they both have substantive elements longer than two words and cannot use this rule.

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3. Substantial Change of to the Sound of a Single-Syllable Name Element: Two names whose substantive elements are two words or less and have a comparable single-syllable name element (excluding articles and prepositions, like such as de and the) are eligible for this rule. Comparable single-syllable name elements are substantially different in sound if a group of adjacent vowels or of adjacent consonants within a word is completely changed, so that they have no sound in common. In rare cases, the sound may still be too similar for this rule to clear the conflict. The change of a single letter is sufficient for two eligible name phrases to be different in appearance, as such name phrases are quite short. On a case by case basis, two-syllable names phrases name elements may be eligible for this rule, such as Harry and Mary.

For example, House of the White Cat is substantially different in sound from House of the White Hat; each has a single syllable word in the substantive element with an initial consonant cluster that is different in both sound and a single letter difference in appearance. Bill sound. Bull House is substantially different in sound from Birch House; each has a single syllable word with a final consonant cluster that is different in sound and appearance. Roune Round House is not substantially different in sound from Broun House because the r and Br groups share a sound; they are substantially different in appearance. sound, as do the nd and n consonant groups.

For example, College of Saint John is substantially different in sound from College of Saint JaneJayn, because each has a single syllable word in the substantive element that is substantially different in sound and appearance. the vowel sounds are completely changed. However, College of Saint John of Essex is not substantially different in sound from College of Saint Jane Jayn of Essex because they both have substantive elements longer than two words and cannot use this rule.

SENA NPN3C4

4. Changes to the Appearance of Multiple Letters: Two non-personal names are substantially different in appearance if a change in spelling (including addition or removal of letters and insertion or deletion of spaces) affects at least two letters or spaces in their substantive elements.

For example, College of Saint Claris is substantially different in appearance from College of Santa Clara: when changing from Saint Claris to Santa Clara, one letter is deleted and one added to the first word, and in the second word one letter is changed and a second letter is deleted. Bill House is substantially different in appearance from Birch House, because three letters in the substantive element have changed.

For example, House of the White Cat is not substantially different in appearance from Order of the White Cat or White Cat Herald. In all three cases, the substantive elements are identical.

SENA NPN3C5

5. Substantial Change to the Appearance of a Short Name: Two names whose substantive elements are two words or less (excluding articles and prepositions, such as de and the) are eligible for this rule. Changing one letter in words that both have four or fewer letters suffices for substantial difference in appearance. On a case by case basis, changes to the beginning of longer words, such as Harry and Larry, may also be eligible for this rule.

For example, House of the White Cat is substantially different in appearance from House of the White Hat. The substantive elements are both two words long, and both Cat and Hat have three letters. On the other hand, Pers Hall is not significantly different in appearance from Peris Hall, because the substantive element Peris has more than four letters and thus this rule does not apply.

SENA NPN3C6

6. Examples of Non-Personal Name Conflict Checks: Here are some examples of pairs of non-personal names that are clear of identity conflict.

For example, College of Saint Claris is substantially different in sound from College of Santa Clara under NPN.3.C.1 because two syllables change in sound, and another is added. The two names are substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.4 because more than two letters are changed. Thus, College of Saint Claris and College of Santa Clara are clear of identity conflict.

For example, Canton of Caldbek is substantially different in sound from Canton of Caldwell under NPN.3.C.2 because the second syllable of the substantive element is substantially changed. The two names are substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.4 because two letters are changed and a third has been added. Thus, Canton of Caldbek and Canton of Caldwell are clear of identity conflict.

For example, House of the White Cat is substantially different in sound from House of the White Hat under NPN.3.C.3 because a group of consonants in one word of a two-word substantive element is completely changed. The two names are substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.5 because one letter in a three-letter word of the substantive element has changed. Thus, House of the White Cat and House of the White Hat are clear of identity conflict.

Here are some examples of pairs of non-personal names that have an identity conflict.

For example, College of Saint Claris has an identity conflict with Saint Claris Hall. In both names, the substantive element is Saint Claris. Because designators do not contribute difference, these names conflict. Similarly, House of the White Cat and White Cat Herald have identical substantive elements and are in conflict.

For example, College of Saint John of Essex has an identity conflict with College of Saint Jayn of Essex. The two names are not different in sound under NPN.3.C.1 because only one syllable is changed. The two names are not different in sound under NPN.3.C.2 because no consonants have changed. Because both names have substantive elements longer than two words, NPN.3.C.3 does not apply. The two names happen to be substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.4, since two letters have been changed, but because they are not substantially different in both sound and appearance, they have an identity conflict.

For example, Pers Hall has an identity conflict with Peris Hall. The two names happen to be substantially different in sound under NPN.3.C.2, because a syllable has been added. However, they are not substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.4 because only one letter has been added, and they are not substantially different in appearance under NPN.3.C.5 because Peris has more than four letters and thus the rule does not apply. Because the two names are not substantially different in both sound and appearance, they have an identity conflict.

* Society Pages

On July 13, 2019, at Battlemoor, Their Majesties of the Outlands inducted Ian Raven of Tadcaster, herald for the Shire of Draca Mor and formerly Diademe Herald and Salamander Pursuivant in the East Kingdom, into the Order of Defense.

Congratulations to Beatrice Domenici della Campana, Green Staff Herald, who married her long-term (non-SCA) partner on August 26th. Many happy returns to the couple.

Please send information about happenings to major heralds and major happenings to all heralds to Laurel, so that it can be published here.

* Send What to Whom

Letters of Intent, Comment, Response, Correction, et cetera are to be posted to the OSCAR online system. No paper copies need be sent. All submission forms plus documentation, including petitions, must be posted to the OSCAR online system. While black-and-white emblazons must be included in the Letter of Intent, only colored armory forms need to be posted in the forms area.

Cheques or money orders for submissions, payable to "SCA Inc.-College of Arms" are to be sent to Stephanie Ray-Solum, Blue Bug Bookkeeping, 2144 Westlake Ave. North Suite F, Seattle, WA 98109.

Send roster changes and corrections to Laurel. College of Arms members may also request a copy of the current roster from Laurel.

For a paper copy of a LoAR, please contact Laurel, at the address above. The cost for one LoAR is $3. Please make all checks or money orders payable to "SCA Inc.-College of Arms". The electronic copy of the LoAR is available free of charge. To subscribe to the mailings of the electronic copy, please see the bottom of http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/lists.html#lists for more instructions.

For all administrative matters, please contact Laurel.

* Scheduling

Items listed below in square brackets have not been scheduled yet. For information about future scheduling, please review the status table located on the Web at http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=137.

The June Laurel decisions were made at the Pelican meeting held on Sunday, June 16, 2019 and the Wreath meeting held on Sunday, June 9, 2019. These meetings considered the following letters of intent: East (02 Mar, 2019), Artemisia (04 Mar, 2019), Artemisia (05 Mar, 2019), Calontir (08 Mar, 2019), Laurel LoPaD (09 Mar, 2019), Atenveldt (20 Mar, 2019), Caid (25 Mar, 2019), Ealdormere (25 Mar, 2019), Artemisia (27 Mar, 2019), Outlands (28 Mar, 2019), Palimpsest Rules Letter (28 Mar, 2019), Ęthelmearc (30 Mar, 2019), An Tir (30 Mar, 2019), Atlantia (30 Mar, 2019), Avacal (30 Mar, 2019), West (30 Mar, 2019), Ansteorra (31 Mar, 2019), Drachenwald (31 Mar, 2019), Gleann Abhann (31 Mar, 2019), Meridies (31 Mar, 2019). All commentary, responses, and rebuttals should have been entered into OSCAR by Friday, May 31, 2019.

The July Laurel decisions were made at the Laurel roadshow held on Sunday July 7, 2019, the Pelican meeting held on Sunday, July 21, 2019, and the Wreath meeting held on Sunday, July 14, 2019. These meetings considered the following letters of intent: Laurel LoPaD (01 Apr, 2019), Middle (03 Apr, 2019), Calontir (05 Apr, 2019), Lochac (05 Apr, 2019), An Tir (14 Apr, 2019), Caid (15 Apr, 2019), Ęthelmearc (22 Apr, 2019), Ansteorra (22 Apr, 2019), Ealdormere (24 Apr, 2019), Northshield (24 Apr, 2019), Atenveldt (25 Apr, 2019), Artemisia (27 Apr, 2019), Avacal (28 Apr, 2019), Laurel LoPaD (29 Apr, 2019), Outlands (29 Apr, 2019), Atlantia (30 Apr, 2019), Drachenwald (30 Apr, 2019), East (30 Apr, 2019), Gleann Abhann (30 Apr, 2019), Meridies (30 Apr, 2019). All commentary, responses, and rebuttals should have been entered into OSCAR by Sunday, June 30, 2019.

The August Laurel decisions were made at the Pelican meeting held on Sunday, August 18, 2019 and the Wreath meeting held on Sunday, August 11, 2019. These meetings considered the following letters of intent: Trimaris (02 May, 2019), Calontir (04 May, 2019), Laurel LoPaD (04 May, 2019), Lochac (04 May, 2019), Middle (10 May, 2019), An Tir (17 May, 2019), Ealdormere (24 May, 2019), Avacal (29 May, 2019), Artemisia (30 May, 2019), Atenveldt (30 May, 2019), Ansteorra (31 May, 2019), Artemisia (31 May, 2019), Atlantia (31 May, 2019), Caid (31 May, 2019), Drachenwald (31 May, 2019), East (31 May, 2019), Gleann Abhann (31 May, 2019), Laurel LoPaD (31 May, 2019), Meridies (31 May, 2019), Northshield (31 May, 2019), Outlands (31 May, 2019), West (31 May, 2019). All commentary, responses, and rebuttals should have been entered into OSCAR by Wednesday, July 31, 2019.

Not all letters of intent may be considered when they are originally scheduled on this cover letter. The date of posting of the LoI, date of receipt of the Laurel packet, or other factors may delay consideration of certain letters of intent. Additionally, some letters of intent received may not have been scheduled because the administrative requirements (receipt of the forms packet, receipt of the necessary fees, et cetera) have not yet been met.

REMINDER: Until all administrative requirements are met, the letter may not be scheduled.

Pray know that I remain,

In service,

Juliana de Luna
Laurel Queen of Arms


Created at 2019-08-29T20:41:25