Collected Precedents of the S.C.A.: Chinese

Name Precedents: Chinese

Laurel: Date: (year.month.date) Precedent:

François la Flamme 2004.01 Shih, Tan, and Po were all documented as surnames. Therefore, this name does not contain a given name and, so, violates RfS III.2.a, "Personal Names", which requires that a personal name must "contain a given name and at least one byname".
Additionally, Tan and Po were documented as modern surnames. No documentation was provided and none was found to support these elements in period. Lacking such documentation, they are not registerable. [Shih Tan Po, 01/2004, R-Middle]

François la Flamme 2004.01 This name is being returned for problems with both the given name and the surname.
No documentation was presented and none was found for Ao as a given name in Chinese. Lacking such documentation, it is not registerable.
While Wang was documented as a Chinese surname in period, it also appears on the "List of Alternate Titles" as the Chinese equivalent for Prince. As such, it is reserved for use in the SCA and is not registerable as a byname or surname. While given names, such as Regina, that are documented as being used in period are registerable so long as there is "no suggestion of territorial claim or explicit assertion of rank", the same is not true for bynames that explicitly imply rank, including those listed on the "List of Alternate Titles". Therefore, this name must be returned for violation of RfS VI.1 "Names Claiming Rank".
No documentation was presented showing that this character was a period Chinese character. In addition, Chinese characters often represent entire words or phrases and thus may have intrinsic meaning. No documentation was provided by the submitting Kingdom or the College for the meaning associated with this character. As noted in the LoAR of July 2002, "Because we do not know what the ... writing means, it has the potential to either be nonsensical or offensive." [Wang Ao, 01/2004, R-Northshield]

François la Flamme 2003.09 This submission is being returned for lack of evidence of Shiao as a valid transliteration.
Languages that do not use Roman character sets are registerable so long as a single transliteration system is used throughout the entire name. The transliteration Shiao 'small, tiny, insignificant' uses no transliteration system that we were able to identify. Yin Mei Li, Golden Pillar, explains:
[T]his name appears to mix Romanization systems, using an as-yet-unidentified convention for the given name's first syllable, and either Wade-Giles or Pinyin for the surname and the given name's second syllable. The Chinese character for Shiao, the first syllable of this submitted given name is relatively easy to identify because there appears to be only one Chinese character with the intended meaning that a typical American might spell as Shiao. However, this character is Romanized as Hsiao in Wade-Giles (Mandarin dialect), Siao in a common modified Wade-Giles, Xiao in Pinyin (Mandarin dialect) and Siu in Yale (Cantonese dialect). Among the five conventions and two modified conventions used in her books, Yin could not find any convention that Romanizes the subject Chinese character as shiao. Even the submitter's cited documentation, identified in the LoI, uses standard Pinyin and Yale Romanizations, rather than whatever convention the submitter used. [...]
The other two syllables, Lin and Mei, are Wade-Giles or Pinyin Romanizations. These two Romanizations are identical for these two Chinese characters partially because, in Mandarin, these syllables involve sounds that are more common in European languages. However, dialects can vary enough that both of these syllables can have very different Romanizations for other dialects. For example, depending on which Chinese character is used for surname Lin, its Yale Romanization is Lam or Leun. Mui is the Yale Romanization for the Chinese character that is the given name's second syllable.

From the information provided by Golden Pillar, forms of this name using a single transliteration system throughout the entire name would be Lin Hsiao Mei using Wade-Giles, Lin Xiao Mei using Pinyin, and Lam Siu Mui or Leun Siu Mui using Yale.
Since the submitter allows no changes, we were unable to change this name to use a consistent transliteration system in order to register this name. [Lin Shiao Mei, 09/2003 LoAR, R-Outlands]

François la Flamme 2003.06 Submitted as Lán Ying, we have removed the accent from the byname. Pinyin and Wade-Giles are the two main systems for transliterating Chinese names using the Roman alphabet. Golden Pillar provided information regarding the accents and diacritical marks used in these transliteration systems:
First, Yin strongly recommends that Pelican and Laurel not register accent marks, or most other diacritical marks, with Chinese names. In Pinyin, and in many Wade-Giles, Romanizations, these marks are, in some sense, similar to the marks in deFelice, providing pronunciation information without being part of the actual characters in the name. With a few exceptions in Wade-Giles, the marks are one of two modern methods for conveying pronunciation tones, and the other method (numbers at the end of each syllable) is much more common. Further, both numbers and marks are most frequently omitted when Romanizing Chinese characters for Western readers from the general public. Please note that, if accent and diacritical marks are registered in Romanized Chinese names, then the much more common number-at-end-of-syllable should be likewise registerable. (By the way, if the number convention is registerable, this name would more frequently be Romanized as Lan2 Ying1 than as Lán Ying).

Given this information, we will omit diacritical marks and tonal indicators (numbers at the end of each syllable) when registering Chinese names. We have changed Lán to Lan in this name to remove the accent, which is used as a pronunciation indicator. [Lan Ying, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Middle]

Elsbeth Anne Roth 2001.07 For the registration of this name special thanks go to Pillar for providing extensive documentation, very briefly summarised by herself this way:

Relevent period Chinese given name conventions can be summarized as follows: (1) generally two syllables long, (2) meanings are carried by their written Chinese characters, and (3) female names sometimes refer to flowers. [Li Ming Fa, 08/00, A-Atenveldt]

Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) 1995.02 [Long Bai Xiong] Submitted as Lung Bai Xiong, the surname was documented from a different book than the other parts of the name, one which used a different (Wade-Giles) transliteration system from the other (Pinyin). We have modified that surname to match the transliteration system of the remainder of the name. (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR February 1995, p. 7)

Da'ud ibn Auda (1st year of 1st tenure) 1990.10 "Lord Yale's discussion of the Wade-Giles and Pinyin transliteration systems for Chinese convinced us that the name would be better if spelled in only one or the other rather than a hybrid which used parts of each. Accordingly, we have used the Pinyin transliteration system as that was closest to the form submitted." (LoAR 10/90 p.9).

Laurel:	Date: (year.month.date)	Precedent:
François la Flamme	2004.01	Shih, Tan, and Po were all documented as surnames. Therefore, this name does not contain a given name and, so, violates RfS III.2.a, "Personal Names", which requires that a personal name must "contain a given name and at least one byname". Additionally, Tan and Po were documented as modern surnames. No documentation was provided and none was found to support these elements in period. Lacking such documentation, they are not registerable. [Shih Tan Po, 01/2004, R-Middle]
François la Flamme	2004.01	This name is being returned for problems with both the given name and the surname. No documentation was presented and none was found for Ao as a given name in Chinese. Lacking such documentation, it is not registerable. While Wang was documented as a Chinese surname in period, it also appears on the "List of Alternate Titles" as the Chinese equivalent for Prince. As such, it is reserved for use in the SCA and is not registerable as a byname or surname. While given names, such as Regina, that are documented as being used in period are registerable so long as there is "no suggestion of territorial claim or explicit assertion of rank", the same is not true for bynames that explicitly imply rank, including those listed on the "List of Alternate Titles". Therefore, this name must be returned for violation of RfS VI.1 "Names Claiming Rank". No documentation was presented showing that this character was a period Chinese character. In addition, Chinese characters often represent entire words or phrases and thus may have intrinsic meaning. No documentation was provided by the submitting Kingdom or the College for the meaning associated with this character. As noted in the LoAR of July 2002, "Because we do not know what the ... writing means, it has the potential to either be nonsensical or offensive." [Wang Ao, 01/2004, R-Northshield]
François la Flamme	2003.09	This submission is being returned for lack of evidence of Shiao as a valid transliteration. Languages that do not use Roman character sets are registerable so long as a single transliteration system is used throughout the entire name. The transliteration Shiao 'small, tiny, insignificant' uses no transliteration system that we were able to identify. Yin Mei Li, Golden Pillar, explains: [T]his name appears to mix Romanization systems, using an as-yet-unidentified convention for the given name's first syllable, and either Wade-Giles or Pinyin for the surname and the given name's second syllable. The Chinese character for Shiao, the first syllable of this submitted given name is relatively easy to identify because there appears to be only one Chinese character with the intended meaning that a typical American might spell as Shiao. However, this character is Romanized as Hsiao in Wade-Giles (Mandarin dialect), Siao in a common modified Wade-Giles, Xiao in Pinyin (Mandarin dialect) and Siu in Yale (Cantonese dialect). Among the five conventions and two modified conventions used in her books, Yin could not find any convention that Romanizes the subject Chinese character as shiao. Even the submitter's cited documentation, identified in the LoI, uses standard Pinyin and Yale Romanizations, rather than whatever convention the submitter used. [...] The other two syllables, Lin and Mei, are Wade-Giles or Pinyin Romanizations. These two Romanizations are identical for these two Chinese characters partially because, in Mandarin, these syllables involve sounds that are more common in European languages. However, dialects can vary enough that both of these syllables can have very different Romanizations for other dialects. For example, depending on which Chinese character is used for surname Lin, its Yale Romanization is Lam or Leun. Mui is the Yale Romanization for the Chinese character that is the given name's second syllable. From the information provided by Golden Pillar, forms of this name using a single transliteration system throughout the entire name would be Lin Hsiao Mei using Wade-Giles, Lin Xiao Mei using Pinyin, and Lam Siu Mui or Leun Siu Mui using Yale. Since the submitter allows no changes, we were unable to change this name to use a consistent transliteration system in order to register this name. [Lin Shiao Mei, 09/2003 LoAR, R-Outlands]
François la Flamme	2003.06	Submitted as Lán Ying, we have removed the accent from the byname. Pinyin and Wade-Giles are the two main systems for transliterating Chinese names using the Roman alphabet. Golden Pillar provided information regarding the accents and diacritical marks used in these transliteration systems: First, Yin strongly recommends that Pelican and Laurel not register accent marks, or most other diacritical marks, with Chinese names. In Pinyin, and in many Wade-Giles, Romanizations, these marks are, in some sense, similar to the marks in deFelice, providing pronunciation information without being part of the actual characters in the name. With a few exceptions in Wade-Giles, the marks are one of two modern methods for conveying pronunciation tones, and the other method (numbers at the end of each syllable) is much more common. Further, both numbers and marks are most frequently omitted when Romanizing Chinese characters for Western readers from the general public. Please note that, if accent and diacritical marks are registered in Romanized Chinese names, then the much more common number-at-end-of-syllable should be likewise registerable. (By the way, if the number convention is registerable, this name would more frequently be Romanized as Lan2 Ying1 than as Lán Ying). Given this information, we will omit diacritical marks and tonal indicators (numbers at the end of each syllable) when registering Chinese names. We have changed Lán to Lan in this name to remove the accent, which is used as a pronunciation indicator. [Lan Ying, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Middle]
Elsbeth Anne Roth	2001.07	For the registration of this name special thanks go to Pillar for providing extensive documentation, very briefly summarised by herself this way: Relevent period Chinese given name conventions can be summarized as follows: (1) generally two syllables long, (2) meanings are carried by their written Chinese characters, and (3) female names sometimes refer to flowers. [Li Ming Fa, 08/00, A-Atenveldt]
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year)	1995.02	[Long Bai Xiong] Submitted as Lung Bai Xiong, the surname was documented from a different book than the other parts of the name, one which used a different (Wade-Giles) transliteration system from the other (Pinyin). We have modified that surname to match the transliteration system of the remainder of the name. (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR February 1995, p. 7)
Da'ud ibn Auda (1st year of 1st tenure)	1990.10	"Lord Yale's discussion of the Wade-Giles and Pinyin transliteration systems for Chinese convinced us that the name would be better if spelled in only one or the other rather than a hybrid which used parts of each. Accordingly, we have used the Pinyin transliteration system as that was closest to the form submitted." (LoAR 10/90 p.9).