Collected Precedents of the S.C.A.: Czech


Name Precedents: Czech

Laurel: Date: (year.month.date) Precedent:
François la Flamme 2003.09 Submitted as Waldemar Stanislav of White Mountain, the submitter requested authenticity for Czech and allowed minor changes. Nebuly provided information regarding authentic forms of this name:

Waldemar is not, nor has it ever been a Slavic name. Contrary to claims made in the LoI, Waldemar does not appear in Wickenden. It certainly doesn't appear under the header Valdimar, because there is no such header in that book. Neither does the name appear in the SSNO (Dictionary of Old Polish Names). It turns out that Waldemar is a Danish royal name circa 1200, and the name of a Margrave of Brandenburg circa 1300 (Bahlow, s.n. Waldemar). Since the name is documented from eastern Germany, and since German names were frequently used among the Poles and Czechs, Waldemar is a fine given name.

The second element Stanislav can be documented to Poland by the beginning of the 13th century (SSNO s.n. Stanis{l/}aw), but the name is probably older. To be orthographically consistent, the spelling should be changed to Stanislaw, since v and w represent the same sound in this name. Before 1500, Czech spelling was closer to Polish, so I would use the 13th century Polish spelling Stanislaw. To meet the client's desire for a more authentic Czech name, we should convert this second element into a patronym Stanislowow or Stanislawsky (the second form is more common for patronyms formed from -ow names). This conversion makes the name more authentic by eliminating the double given name.

The final element of White Mountain is registerable only because there is an SCA branch by that name (reg. 1/85). I cannot justify a locative formed from the name of a battle, though a locative following a patronym should be fine. If the client's primary desire is for an authentic name, then the locative should be dropped and the spelling Waldemar Stanislawsky would be registered.

The only documentation providied in the LoI for the byname of White Mountain was the statement: "Place name. English form of Czech name of famous battle." This is insufficient documentation. This statement does not provide evidence of a placename dated to period, in either Czech or English. Were documentation provided for a Czech placename that meant 'white mountain', it would not support a byname of White Mountain. As recently explained:

Lingua Anglica equivalents for placenames are based on their English rendering, not on a literal translation of the meaning of the placename. For example, the Lingua Anglica form of Tokyo (which means 'Eastern Capital') is Tokyo, not Eastern Capital. [Erik the Bear, 05/2002, R-Atlantia]

As noted by Nebuly, the byname of White Mountain is registerable because of the registered SCA branch name White Mountain. Therefore, this byname refers to the branch in question, not a period Czech placename.

Both Waldemar and Stanislav were submitted as given names. Changing a given name (such as Stanislav) to a patronymic byname (such as Stanislawsky) significantly changes the meaning of the name and, so, is a major change. Dropping a name phrase (such as of White Mountain) is also a major change. As the submitter does not allow major changes, we were unable to modify this name to a form such as Waldemar Stanislawsky as suggested by Nebuly in order to meet the submitter's request for authenticity. We have changed the given name Stanislav to the form Stanislaw, suggested by Nebuly, in order to partially meet the submitter's request for authenticity. [Waldemar Stanislaw of White Mountain, 09/2003, A-Trimaris]

François la Flamme 2003.06 Submitted as Gustav Zizka, the submitter requested authenticity for 15th C Hussite (German/Czech). Gustav was documented from Withycombe. As previously stated:

Withycombe's strength lies in English. In most cases, when she is referring to names that are not in English, she is referring to modern forms. As such, any undated references in Withycombe to forms of names in other languages ought to have additional support. [Anton Cwith, 08/01, A-Ansteorra]

German sources make it clear that Gustav was borrowed from Swedish; the College was unable to find evidence that it was used as a German given name before 1600. The spellings Gustaf and G�staff are found in Swedish (in Sveriges Medeltida Personnamn, vol. 9 s.n. G�tstaf). We have changed the given name to a form documented to period in order to register this name.

Zizka is documented as a Czech byname. As there was extensive contact between Sweden and Czechoslovakia, including a large number of Swedes studying at the University of Prague, the combination of Swedish and Czech is registerable, though a weirdness. However, lacking evidence that any form of Gustav was used in German or Czech, we could not make this name authentic for Hussites (German/Czech) as requested by the submitter. [Gustaf Zizka, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Trimaris]

François la Flamme 2003.02 Submitted as Ivak Martsch, Martsch was submitted as an undated form found in Bahlow (s.n. Martsch(ke), Martschick). This entry dates Marzik to 1376 in Prague. However, no evidence was found that the form Martsch was used in period. Nebuly explains:

[T]he byname is an undated German form of a Czech given name (Bahlow, s.n. Martsch(ke)). The spelling and grammar of the byname are certainly wrong for Czech and probably for Russian as well. [...]

There are some close forms in Polish (Rymut, s.n. Marcin) including Marcinek 1224, Marcisz 1374, Marciesz 1375, Marc 1400, Mercisz 1411, and others. Of these forms, Marc is pronounced most like the submitted one, but the spelling may not appeal to the submitter.

As the submitter allows minor changes, we have changed the byname from the undated form Martsch to the dated form Marzik. As this change does not change the language of the byname, it falls within the changes allowed as a minor change. [Ivak Marzik, 02/2003 LoAR, A-Æthelmearc]

Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 1st year) 1994.06 [Registering �vatý Sebesta, College of.] Submitted as College of Saint Sebesta, RfS III.1.a. requires that each phrase must be grammatically correct according to the usage of a single language. We have translated "saint" to the Czech form, as well as adding the correct "inverted caret" over the S in Sebesta (it is pronounced "Shebesta"). [6/94, p.9]