Collected Precedents of the S.C.A.: Joke Names

Name Precedents: Joke Names

Laurel: Date: (year.month.date) Precedent:

Shauna of Carrick Point 2004.03 Although this name sounds like "Thor and Loki", names of two Norse gods, there is no reason to believe that it is either presumptuous or intrusively modern. It is, most likely, a joke name; Laurel precedent has long held:

The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register.(Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)

[Thoren Lokky, 03/04, A-Caid]

François la Flamme 2002.03 This submission can be viewed as a joke name:
The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)

As this submission is no more obtrusive than any of the three names listed above, it is registerable. [Pegge Leg the Merchant, 03/2002, A-An Tir]

François la Flamme 2002.03 There was a question of whether this name is obtrusively modern, since the two main characters in the play Waiting for Godot! are Vladimir and Estragon. There is a precedent:
[Hob Calvin] The allusion to the cartoon Calvin and Hobbes is not overt enough to make this name unregisterable. (Hob Calvin, Caid-A, LoAR 12/99)

Similarly, the allusion to Waiting for Godot! is not overt enough to make this name unregisterable. [Vladimir of Eztergom, 03/2002, A-Atlantia]

François la Flamme 2002.01 This name falls into the "joke name" category, as it is phonetically identical to the word human. The following precedent applies:

The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)

Hugh Mann is no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name. [Hugh Mann, 01/02, A-Atlantia]

François la Flamme 2002.01 [Greyhound Pack] The first issue is whether Pack is acceptable as a household designator. The documentation provided in the LoI for use of Pack was:
The Oxford English Dictionary, Vol. 9, pg. 39, s.n. pack defines it as a company or set of persons and dates the word packe to 1578. The Middle English Dictionary, Part P.1, Sherman M. Kuhn, ed., published 1981, University of Michigan Press on pg. 560, s.n. pak defines the word as an assemblage of people; a company, band and dates the word pak to 1425 and pack to 1400.
Given this definition, if we register Company and Band as household designators, we should also permit Pack. There are at least forty registrations of household names with the designator Company (not including variant spellings). There are three registrations that include some form of the word Band as the designator: The Blue Band (Fionnbhárr Starfyr of the Isles, October 1996), Drafen War Band (Gregory of York, April 1983), and Warband die Steiner Wache (Canton of Steinsee, April 1997). As Company and Band are registerable as household designators, Pack is as well.

The second issue is whether the combination of elements in this submission is intrusively modern, which has previously been cause for return:
[Artemisia, Principality of. Name for the Artemisian Tank Corps.] The name here is intrusively modern. The fact that the individual elements may be period (though with different meanings than the submitters are desirous of) is overwhelmed by the modern connotations of the phrase. (LoAR 02/91, R-Atenveldt)
Grayhound was used in a period sign name, The Syne of the Grayhound, dated to 1522 on p. 83 (section 1, column 1) of William Jerdan, ed., "The Visit of the Emperor Charles V to England, A.D. 1522", Rutland Papers (Camden Society, 1842). Commenters voiced concern that Greyhound Pack was overly reminiscent of a group of dogs, specifically greyhounds. In the precedent above, a Tank Corps is not a period type of assembled group. The combination of Tank and Corps combined to form what could be viewed as a designator that was certainly not a period concept. In this case, a group of greyhounds is a period concept. Therefore, the secondary meaning of Greyhound Pack falls into the same category as Drew Steele. Both may be considered "joke names", but both are period concepts and so are not excessively obtrusive. Tank Corps falls into the same category as Porsche Audi, which was returned in August of 1992:
The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register. (Porsche Audi, Returned, LoAR 08/92, pg. 28)
Therefore, as Pack is a registerable household designator and Greyhound Pack is not obtrusively modern, this household name is registerable. [Elizabeth Curry, 01/02, A-Ansteorra]

François la Flamme 2001.10 Submitted as Angus the Bull, the submitter requested authenticity for Scottish language/culture. Black (p. 113 s.n. Bull) dates Thomas Bull to 1376. As such, we have removed the from the name to meet the submitter's request.

There was some question about whether the reference to the cattle breed was obtrusively modern. We feel that this falls into the category of a "joke name". The following precedent applies:
The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)
Angus Bull is no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name as modified above. [Angus Bull, 10/01, A-Æthelmearc]

François la Flamme 2001.08 The question came up as to whether this name should be returned as a "joke name". The following precedent applies:
The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)
Gemma Stone seems to be no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name. [Gemma Stone, 08/01, A-Atlantia]

Jaelle of Armida 1997.07 [returning Trey Chiché] Furthermore, even if Trey were registerable, combined with Chiché, it becomes a obtrusively modern, and therefore not registerable. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 18)

Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) 1996.01 [registering Jan Kees Dudel] The only remaining question is whether its resemblance to Yankee Doodle is too intrusive. On this issue commentary was almost evenly divided between those who found the name intrusively modern and those who thought it a `funny-once' to which the so-called Toyota principle should apply, with a slight edge to the latter group. Returns for matters of taste, like armorial returns for visual conflict, should be avoided whenever possible; in the absence of a clear consensus that the name is intrusively modern, we cannot justify returning it. (Talan Gwynek, LoAR January 1996, p. 15)

Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme 1992.11 The OED confirms maied as a variant form of mead, "meadow"; ironmaied would be a field where iron could be found (a meteorite fall, or an outcropping of iron ore). The toponymic, though strongly reminiscent of the Iron Maiden, does appear to be a valid construction; and if the submitter can live with the inevitable jokes, so can we. (Darbie of Ironmaid, November, 1992, pg. 2)

Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme 1992.08 [Porsche Audi] Lord Crescent is correct when he states that there is no Rule explicitly banning intrusively modern names. Nonetheless, intrusive modernity is given as a reason for armorial return (VIII.4.b); it is given as a reason for not accepting mundane names, even under the Mundane Name Allowance (II.4); we may reasonably infer that intrusive modernity is unacceptable.
If a specific Rule must be cited, Rule I.1 requires all names to be "compatible with the period and domain of the Society"; moreover, even names formed from period elements can be returned if "they have been specifically declared incompatible by these rules, Laurel precedent, or a policy statement from the Board of Directors." Intrusive modernity has been declared sufficient reason for return in the past: Joe Westermark, the Artemisian Tank Corps, Rolling Thunder, and the Societas Historum Mortum have all been returned for modernity. The precedent is well-established, and therefore, by I.1 may be cited as reason for return.
The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)

Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) 1991.10 [Richard the Chicken-Hearted] "This is not only a joke name, but a parody of Richard the Lion-Hearted. As was the case with Decrease Mather (a parody of Increase Mather), which was returned on the LoAR of May 12, 1985, this name 'alludes strongly enough to the historical character to constitute infringement.' " (LoAR 10/91 p.18).

Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane 1989.09.30 It is Laurel's conviction that the precedent of "Decrease Mather", which was registered, sets a fairly wide latitude for names that play on the meaning and context of their elements in this manner. This name does not really go beyond those wide boundaries. Also, ... we do not by tradition ban anachronistic names. (When a Viking can sit next to an Elizabethan lady at high table, it would probably be a futile effort.) (LoAR 30 Sep 89, p. 3)

Baldwin of Erebor 1985.05.12 It is my contention that [the description] "joke" is necessarily a pejorative attribute only to those whose perception of the SCA is straitened and humorless. If a name is offensive, or otherwise unacceptable, then it should be returned on those grounds, not simply because it has the capacity to entertain. [BoE, 12 May 85, p.12]

Baldwin of Erebor 1985.03.10 [Miles Long.] The name is perfectly acceptable. It is correctly constructed of period components, and if it strikes some people as odd or humorous, well, so do many other aspects of the Middle Ages (as I am reminded every time I stop for ice on the way to a tourney: "Mommy, look, a man in a dress!"). [BoE, 10 Mar 85, p.8]

Wilhelm von Schlüssel 1982.03.15 The name is a joke name and is thus not acceptable for registration. WVS [65] [LoAR 15 Mar 82], p. 3

Wilhelm von Schlüssel 1980.05.15 N. is out of period and this sort of joke name is not acceptable anyway. WVS [17] [LoAR 15 May 80], p. 10

Karina of the Far West 1978.11.20 [Vlad the Impala.] The name is a clumsy takeoff on that of Vlad Tepes, the Hammer of the Turks. As Manuel Garcia O'Kelly would put it, it's a funny-once. (KFW, 20 Nov 78 123 ], p. 1)

Laurel:	Date: (year.month.date)	Precedent:
Shauna of Carrick Point	2004.03	Although this name sounds like "Thor and Loki", names of two Norse gods, there is no reason to believe that it is either presumptuous or intrusively modern. It is, most likely, a joke name; Laurel precedent has long held: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register.(Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28) [Thoren Lokky, 03/04, A-Caid]
François la Flamme	2002.03	This submission can be viewed as a joke name: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28) As this submission is no more obtrusive than any of the three names listed above, it is registerable. [Pegge Leg the Merchant, 03/2002, A-An Tir]
François la Flamme	2002.03	There was a question of whether this name is obtrusively modern, since the two main characters in the play Waiting for Godot! are Vladimir and Estragon. There is a precedent: [Hob Calvin] The allusion to the cartoon Calvin and Hobbes is not overt enough to make this name unregisterable. (Hob Calvin, Caid-A, LoAR 12/99) Similarly, the allusion to Waiting for Godot! is not overt enough to make this name unregisterable. [Vladimir of Eztergom, 03/2002, A-Atlantia]
François la Flamme	2002.01	This name falls into the "joke name" category, as it is phonetically identical to the word human. The following precedent applies: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28) Hugh Mann is no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name. [Hugh Mann, 01/02, A-Atlantia]
François la Flamme	2002.01	[Greyhound Pack] The first issue is whether Pack is acceptable as a household designator. The documentation provided in the LoI for use of Pack was: The Oxford English Dictionary, Vol. 9, pg. 39, s.n. pack defines it as a company or set of persons and dates the word packe to 1578. The Middle English Dictionary, Part P.1, Sherman M. Kuhn, ed., published 1981, University of Michigan Press on pg. 560, s.n. pak defines the word as an assemblage of people; a company, band and dates the word pak to 1425 and pack to 1400. Given this definition, if we register Company and Band as household designators, we should also permit Pack. There are at least forty registrations of household names with the designator Company (not including variant spellings). There are three registrations that include some form of the word Band as the designator: The Blue Band (Fionnbhárr Starfyr of the Isles, October 1996), Drafen War Band (Gregory of York, April 1983), and Warband die Steiner Wache (Canton of Steinsee, April 1997). As Company and Band are registerable as household designators, Pack is as well. The second issue is whether the combination of elements in this submission is intrusively modern, which has previously been cause for return: [Artemisia, Principality of. Name for the Artemisian Tank Corps.] The name here is intrusively modern. The fact that the individual elements may be period (though with different meanings than the submitters are desirous of) is overwhelmed by the modern connotations of the phrase. (LoAR 02/91, R-Atenveldt) Grayhound was used in a period sign name, The Syne of the Grayhound, dated to 1522 on p. 83 (section 1, column 1) of William Jerdan, ed., "The Visit of the Emperor Charles V to England, A.D. 1522", Rutland Papers (Camden Society, 1842). Commenters voiced concern that Greyhound Pack was overly reminiscent of a group of dogs, specifically greyhounds. In the precedent above, a Tank Corps is not a period type of assembled group. The combination of Tank and Corps combined to form what could be viewed as a designator that was certainly not a period concept. In this case, a group of greyhounds is a period concept. Therefore, the secondary meaning of Greyhound Pack falls into the same category as Drew Steele. Both may be considered "joke names", but both are period concepts and so are not excessively obtrusive. Tank Corps falls into the same category as Porsche Audi, which was returned in August of 1992: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register. (Porsche Audi, Returned, LoAR 08/92, pg. 28) Therefore, as Pack is a registerable household designator and Greyhound Pack is not obtrusively modern, this household name is registerable. [Elizabeth Curry, 01/02, A-Ansteorra]
François la Flamme	2001.10	Submitted as Angus the Bull, the submitter requested authenticity for Scottish language/culture. Black (p. 113 s.n. Bull) dates Thomas Bull to 1376. As such, we have removed the from the name to meet the submitter's request. There was some question about whether the reference to the cattle breed was obtrusively modern. We feel that this falls into the category of a "joke name". The following precedent applies: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28) Angus Bull is no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name as modified above. [Angus Bull, 10/01, A-Æthelmearc]
François la Flamme	2001.08	The question came up as to whether this name should be returned as a "joke name". The following precedent applies: The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28) Gemma Stone seems to be no more obtrusively modern than Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre cited above. As such, we are registering the name. [Gemma Stone, 08/01, A-Atlantia]
Jaelle of Armida	1997.07	[returning Trey Chiché] Furthermore, even if Trey were registerable, combined with Chiché, it becomes a obtrusively modern, and therefore not registerable. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 18)
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year)	1996.01	[registering Jan Kees Dudel] The only remaining question is whether its resemblance to Yankee Doodle is too intrusive. On this issue commentary was almost evenly divided between those who found the name intrusively modern and those who thought it a `funny-once' to which the so-called Toyota principle should apply, with a slight edge to the latter group. Returns for matters of taste, like armorial returns for visual conflict, should be avoided whenever possible; in the absence of a clear consensus that the name is intrusively modern, we cannot justify returning it. (Talan Gwynek, LoAR January 1996, p. 15)
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme	1992.11	The OED confirms maied as a variant form of mead, "meadow"; ironmaied would be a field where iron could be found (a meteorite fall, or an outcropping of iron ore). The toponymic, though strongly reminiscent of the Iron Maiden, does appear to be a valid construction; and if the submitter can live with the inevitable jokes, so can we. (Darbie of Ironmaid, November, 1992, pg. 2)
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme	1992.08	[Porsche Audi] Lord Crescent is correct when he states that there is no Rule explicitly banning intrusively modern names. Nonetheless, intrusive modernity is given as a reason for armorial return (VIII.4.b); it is given as a reason for not accepting mundane names, even under the Mundane Name Allowance (II.4); we may reasonably infer that intrusive modernity is unacceptable. If a specific Rule must be cited, Rule I.1 requires all names to be "compatible with the period and domain of the Society"; moreover, even names formed from period elements can be returned if "they have been specifically declared incompatible by these rules, Laurel precedent, or a policy statement from the Board of Directors." Intrusive modernity has been declared sufficient reason for return in the past: Joe Westermark, the Artemisian Tank Corps, Rolling Thunder, and the Societas Historum Mortum have all been returned for modernity. The precedent is well-established, and therefore, by I.1 may be cited as reason for return. The fact that this is a "joke name" is not, in and of itself, a problem. The College has registered a number of names, perfectly period in formation, that embodied humor: Drew Steele, Miles Long, and John of Somme Whyre spring to mind as examples. They may elicit chuckles (or groans) from the listener, but no more. Intrusively modern names grab the listener by the scruff of the neck and haul him, will he or nill he, back into the 20th Century. A name that, by its very presence, destroys any medieval ambience is not a name we should register. (Porsche Audi, August, 1992, pg. 28)
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure)	1991.10	[Richard the Chicken-Hearted] "This is not only a joke name, but a parody of Richard the Lion-Hearted. As was the case with Decrease Mather (a parody of Increase Mather), which was returned on the LoAR of May 12, 1985, this name 'alludes strongly enough to the historical character to constitute infringement.' " (LoAR 10/91 p.18).
Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane	1989.09.30	It is Laurel's conviction that the precedent of "Decrease Mather", which was registered, sets a fairly wide latitude for names that play on the meaning and context of their elements in this manner. This name does not really go beyond those wide boundaries. Also, ... we do not by tradition ban anachronistic names. (When a Viking can sit next to an Elizabethan lady at high table, it would probably be a futile effort.) (LoAR 30 Sep 89, p. 3)
Baldwin of Erebor	1985.05.12	It is my contention that [the description] "joke" is necessarily a pejorative attribute only to those whose perception of the SCA is straitened and humorless. If a name is offensive, or otherwise unacceptable, then it should be returned on those grounds, not simply because it has the capacity to entertain. [BoE, 12 May 85, p.12]
Baldwin of Erebor	1985.03.10	[Miles Long.] The name is perfectly acceptable. It is correctly constructed of period components, and if it strikes some people as odd or humorous, well, so do many other aspects of the Middle Ages (as I am reminded every time I stop for ice on the way to a tourney: "Mommy, look, a man in a dress!"). [BoE, 10 Mar 85, p.8]
Wilhelm von Schlüssel	1982.03.15	The name is a joke name and is thus not acceptable for registration. WVS [65] [LoAR 15 Mar 82], p. 3
Wilhelm von Schlüssel	1980.05.15	N. is out of period and this sort of joke name is not acceptable anyway. WVS [17] [LoAR 15 May 80], p. 10
Karina of the Far West	1978.11.20	[Vlad the Impala.] The name is a clumsy takeoff on that of Vlad Tepes, the Hammer of the Turks. As Manuel Garcia O'Kelly would put it, it's a funny-once. (KFW, 20 Nov 78 123 ], p. 1)