Originally registered 10/1999 and blazoned as Vert, a bear rampant maintaining a sword and on a chief Or a quill pen nib to dexter vert, the tertiary charge is a quill pen, not a quill pen nib.
Submitted under the name Bacchus Magnus
Originally submitted as Bláthnaid of Grimwith_, the given name was changed at kingdom to Bláthnat of Grimwithshire to match the Old/Middle Irish citation found for this name in Ó Corrain and Maguire, Irish Names. The byname was changed at kingdom to match the registered name of the shire. Ó Corrain and Maguire note Bláithnait as the Early Modern Irish form of this name; this is closer to the submitter's original form than Bláthnat. Furthermore, either Grimwith or Grimwithshire are registerable as locative bynames. No examples of English placenames have been found using the element shire where the substantive element could not stand on its own as an independent placename. While there is no actual placename called Grimwith, Mills, A Dictionary of English Placenames show numerous examples of the protheme Grim- and of the deuterotheme -with, so Grimwith is a perfectly valid contructed English placename. Because the submitter's form shows of Grimwith on the name line and Grimwithshire on the group line, we believe that the submitter desired the form she submitted instead of the actual group name. Therefore, we have changed the name to Bláthnait of Grimwith_ to allow a form closer to the one originally submitted.
There was some question whether the names Bláthnat and Bláthnait were registerable; Ó Corrain and Maguire cite it only as a legendary name. However, they note that it is a diminutive of the name Bláth which is documented as a saint's name. Because adding -nat or -nait is a standard way to form feminine Gaelic diminutives, this name is a well formed diminutive of a registerable given name. Therefore, it is, itself, registerable.
Please advise the submitter to draw the arrows thicker.
Her old name, Casse Tempeste le Wolf, is released.
The submitter requested authenticity for 15th-16th C Irish Gaelic. While this is a fully Early Modern Gaelic form of this name, there is no evidence for the use of the name Ciarmhac as a given name after the 10th C. Therefore, we are unable to make this name authentic for the submitter's requested time frame. If the submitter is interested in an authentic 10th C version of this name, we suggest the Middle Irish form Cairmac h-úa Cellaig; h-úa Cellaig appears in the "Annals of Tigernach" in the entry for 1028.
Please advise the submitter that the dance should be centered on the field.
Scaly is considered a field treatment and, per the Glossary of Terms, a field treatment is part of the tincture. As used in the SCA, <X> scaly <Y> and <Y> scaly <X> are not interchangeable. For comparison, consider papellony, which is discussed in the 09/2002 Cover Letter.
This is thus clear under RfS X.4.a.ii(b) (complete change of tincture) of Trimaris; Order of the Argent Scales (June 1995): Argent scaly azure -- much as Argent ermined azure would be clear of Azure ermined argent. The two are considered distinct tinctures.
Please advise the submitter to draw the chief wider.
Guy is the submitter's legal given name.
The submitter requested a name authentic for someone "born French Norman; raised Norwegian 10th-11-th century." The byname is a lovely Viking byname, but we have no documentation for the name Guy and none on how names used by people with the submitter's persona story might be formed. Therefore, we doubt that this name is or can be made authentic for the circumstances requested by the submitter.
Please advise the submitter that the lower arm of the cross should be somewhat longer for a true Latin cross.
Submitted as Johannes von Margarten, the submitter requested authentcity for the 12-15th C. The documentation submitted for Margarten was a map of the Swiss confederation; unfortunately, the map was somewhat out of focus, and could show Morgarten or Margarten. A search of Registra Imperii (http://registra-imperii.uni-giessen.de) shows eight examples of Morgarten in the submitter's desired period and none of Margarten. Although the Registrii Imperii does normalize the spellings, this still strongly suggests that Morgarten is the appropriate form. Therefore, we have changed the spelling to Johannes von Morgarten to match the available documentation
Submitted as Julilla Sempronia, we have no examples of Roman names where, when a nomen or cognomen to which the feminine diminutives -illa or -ina has been applied is found, it is the first element in a two element name. All the examples we have found show either the diminutive as the second nomen or cognomen in a two part name with the first nomen as the standard femininized non-diminutive form, or we have found the woman called only by a single name: the diminutive of the nomen. Barring documentation for such a pattern, names following this pattern are not registerable. We note, however, that we only have a small pool of Roman women's names available; it is possible that this pattern may be found. We have changed the name to Julia Sempronia in order to register it. We note that Sempronia Julilla would also be registerable, but we feel that switching the order of the names is a major change which the submitter will not accept. We also would expect that a women with the name of Julia Sempronia might reasonably have been called Julilla when referred to by a single name.
Several commenters questioned whether the form Julilla was a valid feminine diminutive of the nomen Julius. While the submitter had demonstrated a pattern of diminutives ending in -illa formed from femininize nomen, the commenters were unsure whether the formation was valid with a nomen whose root ended in a vowel. In fact, examples of just this usage are not hard to find. "The Trial of C. Junius Silanus", by D. C. A. Shotter, Classical Philology © 1972 The University of Chicago Press, lists a Junia Claudilla in AD 28; Claudilla is a feminine diminutive of the nomen Claudius. Junia Claudilla is a wife of the Emperor Caligula; several other journals have references to her by this name. "A Hoard of Coins Found in the Theatre District of Corinth in 1930", by Theodore Leslie Shear, American Journal of Archaeology © 1931 Archaeological Institute of America , has Plautilla in 211 from the nomen Plautius (the names on the coins are Greek, but this is the standard Roman transcription of the inscription). "The Amphitheatre in Cagliari", by Doro Levi, American Journal of Archaeology © 1942 Archaeological Institute of America, lists a Curilla in 275 from the nomen Curius.
Blazoned on the LoI as lilies, the flowers in this submission do not match the defined heraldic form of a lily. We have reblazoned the flowers as irises, which are drawn more naturalistically.
Please advise the submitter that the entire hilt of the rapier should be Or.
This does not conflict with Christopher Amber, Purpure, a penguin close Or. There is a CD for adding the bordure and another for the difference between an owl and a penguin.
This name mixes English and Gaelic; this is one step from period practice.
There was a question on the correct orientation of the Wake badge which is currently protected, (Tinctureless) A Wake knot. A Wake knot is fesswise by default; therefore that is the orientation in which it is protected. We have no examples of the Wake knot in multiple orientations in the Wake badge. Until we are presented such evidence we will continue to grant a CD for orientation of this knot.
In August 2004, Symmonne requested that her alternative name, Symmonne Deccarrete de Villete, and primary name, Darbie of Ironmaid be switched and that the spelling be changed to Symmonne Deccarrete de Villette. A typo was introduced in the letter of intent, and her new primary name was listed as Symmonne Deccarrette de Villette, which was registered on the LoI. However, the desired and correct spelling for this name is Symmonne Deccarrete de Villette.
The previously registered primary name, Symmone Deccarrette de Villette, is released.
Originally submitted as Una of Grimwith_, the name was changed at kingdom to Una of Grimwithshire to match the submitter's group name. Either Grimwith or Grimwithshire are registerable as locative bynames. No examples of English placenames have been found using the element shire where the substantive element could not stand on its own as an independent placename. While there is no actual placename called Grimwith, Mills, A Dictionary of English Placenames show numerous examples of the protheme Grim- and of the deuterotheme -with, so Grimwith is a perfectly valid contructed English placename. Because the submitter's form shows of Grimwith on the name line and Grimwithshire on the group line, we believe that the submitter desired the form she submitted instead of the actual group name. Therefore, we have changed the name back to the originally submitted form.
This name mixes English and Gaelic; this is one step from period practice.
Please advise the submitter to draw the bend sinister wider.
Submitted as Yngvildr Ögursdóttir, the Ö in the cited source is a character intended to represent the O-ogonek. For registration, we transliterate this character as {O,}. We have made this change.
There was some question whether the spelling Tayler was registerable, since the earliest date cited for this spelling in the documentation was 1790. However, the OED shows Tayler in 1545 and Taylere in the 15th C. Therefore, the spelling is registerable.
Submitted as Ailleann Mac Quinn, the documentation for the patronymic strongly suggests that it is a modern form. Even if the patronymic were a valid late period form, as submitted, this name would still be two steps from period practice. First, it mixes an Irish Gaelic given name with an Anglicized byname. Second, there is a more than 300 year gap between the late 12th-C date for the given name and the late period or modern spelling of the byname. There are two things that can be done to fix the name. Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames s.n. Quine, lists Luke Mac Quyn in 1403. We have changed the name to Ailleann Mac Quyn in order to register it; the 1403 date for the byname eliminates (barely) the step for temporal disparity. However, the combination is highly unlikely, as the mid-12th C is the last example we have for the given name, while the Anglo-Normans (and therefore anglicization of Irish names) don't appear in Ireland until the 13th C. If the submitter is interested in an authentic, and much more likely form of this name, we suggest Aillean ingen Chuinn, a fully Middle Irish form of the name. The patronymic m. Cuinn is found in the 1079 in the Annals of Ulster.
Submitted as Bartelemy Bergeron, the submitter requested authenticity for 13th-15th C French. Several commenters questioned the i-y switch between the documented Bartelemi and the submitted Bartelemy. The cited source for the given name, Colm Dubh's "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris", shows the names Bartelemi, Bertelemi, and Bertelemy. Given these three variants, Bartelemy should be an unremarkable late 13th C spelling. However, the byname is first documented in the 15th C (1468). Since we have no earlier examples of the byname, to make this name authentic we need to use a 15th C form of the given name. Aryhanwy merch Catmael, "French Names from Paris, 1421, 1423, & 1438" shows Berthelemy in 1421. We have changed the name to Berthelemy Bergeron to fufill his request for authenticity. If the submitter is interested in an authentic 13th C form of this name, we suggest Bartelemi le bergier; both elements are found in Colm Dubh's article.
Submitted as Catan inghean ui Cuinn, the submitter requested authenticity for 10th-12th C Irish. The byname mixes the Early Modern Irish feminine patronymic marker with a Middle Irish patronymic. We have changed the patronymic marker to the Middle Irish form, lenited the patronymic as required by Irish grammar, and registered this name as Catan ingen ui Chuinn to fulfill her request for authenticity.
The submitter made an authenticity request which was not noted on the LoI. Note that all checkboxes on the forms must be summarized on the Letter of Intent. Items where the checkboxes are not fully summarized may be pended, while letters that consistently fail to summarize checkboxes may be rejected for not meeting the requirements laid out in the Administrative Handbook for Letters of Intent.
Submitted as Malise der Totschläger, the given name, Malise, was documented from Withycombe, The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names, as an Anglicization of the Gaelic name Mael Iosa. Withycombe is not a reliable source for non-English names or for anglicizations of Gaelic names. However, Black, The Surnames of Scotland s.n. Malise, has Malis or Malisius in 1190 and 1210. The name is also listed in Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames around the same time. We have changed the name to Malis der Totschläger to match the documentation. This makes the name a combination of English or proto-Scots and German, which is one step from period practice.
The byname, Totschläger, was documented only from a modern German-English dictionary in which the word is defined as "manslaughterer." Several of the commenters questioned whether it was a period word, and questioned whether it was a reasonable byname. The word, with the meaning of "killer" or "murderer", is found in late period Bible translations and theological discussions. For instance, the word appears several times in Luther's translation of the Bible with the appropriate meaning. Given that the word with the desired meaning existed in at least late period, we must give it the same benefit of the doubt that we would give a late period English adjective as a descriptive byname: it is a straightforward descriptive word found in (late) period applied as a descriptive for a human; this makes it registerable. However, we have no evidence that this word was ever actually used as a descriptive byname, and we have scant evidence for similar constructions used as descriptive bynames. In Bahlow/Gentry, German Names we find several compound bynames involving the element "tödt" (death) but only "Todenhaupt" (death's head) has the "tödt" element first; other compounds such as Hasentödter (hare-killer) and Hirschtödter (stag-killer) place the "tödt" element second. Also in Bahlow we find several compound bynames involving the element "schläger," striker: in these compounds the "strike" element comes first, as in "Schlagenhauf" (strike the army), "Schlawiedt" (strike far), and "Schladot" (strike dead). If the submitter is interested in an attested byname with a meaning similar to Totschläger, we suggest one of these attested forms.
Nice armory!
This name mixes English and Gaelic; this is one step from period practice.
His old name, Marius Conor, is released.
Nice armory!
Her old name, Margaret Cameron, is retained as an alternate name.
As documented, this name mixes Danish and German; this is one step from period practice.
The submitter requested authenticity for Saxon/Viking 900. However, both elements are documented as Middle English. While this name is registerable, we are unable to make it authentic for the submitter's desired culture/time.
A device with this blazon appeared on Atlantia's October 29, 2005 LoI. It was pended on the February LoAR (dated May 16, 2005) as the emblazon was Per pale vert and sable, not Per pale vert and purpure. The submitter desired the field as blazoned, Per pale vert and purpure, so the pended device was withdrawn and this device submitted on Atlantia's May 29, 2005 LoI. The withdrawn device apppears in the RETURNS section of this letter.
Please advise the submitter to draw the dovetails more boldly.
His previous badge, (Fieldless) A seeblatt per pale sable and Or, is released.
Please advise the submitter to draw the bend sinister narrower and the lion's head larger.
This is at the edge of acceptability. While a bordure can be counterchanged over a gyronny field, the use of a complex line of division reduces its identifiability and will be registerable on a case-by-case basis. In this case the engrailings are boldly drawn and there is only a single primary charge, so it is registerable.
Several commenters suggested that this was equivalent to Argent, on a pellet a cogwheel argent charged with a rose sable, which would be returnable for having four layers. However, when blazoned as an annulet embattled on the inner edge the device is reproducible and avoids the style problem on four layers. It is therefore registerable. A complex line of division on the inner edge only of an annulet will be considered one step from period practice pending evidence of this treatment for anything other than ordinaries in period.
This is clear of Aliskye MacKyven Raizel, (Fieldless) A rose sable barbed and seeded proper within an annulet sable. There is a CD for fieldlessness and a second for the line of division on the annulet.
Some commenters argued that embattling only the inner edge of the annulet (the "inferior" edge) should not be worth a CD. The pertinent ruling was made by Da'ud Laurel:
[A bend potenty on the lower edge] "Conflict with [a plain bend]. Were the ordinary in this proposal potenty on both sides, it would be clear, but the majority of the commenters (and Laurel) did not feel that difference should be granted for this non-period treating of only one (and that the less visually important) side of an ordinary. The only period examples of treating one side of an ordinary which were noted was that of embattling the upper edge of an ordinary." (LoAR 11/90 p.15).
It was the absence of examples of ordinaries with only their lower edges treated that prompted the ruling. Examples have since been found of period ordinaries whose lower edges were treated: e.g., Siebmacher, plate 188, shows Argent, a bend raguly on the lower edge sable, in sinister chief a mullet of six points gules. With evidence that both the upper and lower edges of ordinaries could be independently treated, the ruling loses much of its force. We hereby overturn it and rule that treating either edge of an ordinary (or a charge of similar simplicity, such as an annulet) is worth a CD from the untreated charge
The submitter's argues that this name was a lingua anglica translation of a Mongol clan name, but provided no evidence for the words or construction of such a name in the appropriate language. However, Orle provided evidence for Mongolian Clans (or linages) derived from both totems and personal names, the designator obugtan "clan", as well as the possible name Chagan Dalab{cv}in "white wing". Therefore, this name is registerable as a lingua anglica translation of a Mongolian clan name.
Nice name!
Originally blazoned as Gules, on a fess indented to chief between a mullet and a decrescent argent, a quill pen nib to dexter gules, the tertiary charge is a quill pen, not a quill pen nib.
Several comments questioned whether Tisbury, found as a header spelling in Ekwall, was consistent with period forms. None of the forms for this placename found in the standard sources showed it without an e following the s. While we do not have such evidence in this name, we do have other names where both -se- and -s- spellings are found. Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames s.n. Teasdale, show de Tesedale in 1235-6 and de Tesdale in 1332; s.n. Riseley, de Riseleye 1327 and de Ryslee 1375-6; and s.n. Chiswick, Chesewic in 1170 and de Cheswyk in 1275. Given these examples, we feel that Tisbury is consistent with period spellings.
Several comments questioned whether Tisbury, found as a header spelling in Ekwall, was consistent with period forms. None of the forms for this placename found in the standard sources showed it without an e following the s. While we do not have such evidence in this name, we do have other names where both -se- and -s- spellings are found. Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames s.n. Teasdale, show de Tesedale in 1235-6 and de Tesdale in 1332; s.n. Riseley, de Riseleye 1327 and de Ryslee 1375-6; and s.n. Chiswick, Chesewic in 1170 and de Cheswyk in 1275. Given these examples, we feel that Tisbury is consistent with period spellings.
Nice armory!
Listed on the LoI as Freydis Orkenyska, both the forms and the documentation show Freydis Orkneyska. As this is the correct spelling of the byname, we have changed the name back to the spelling on the forms.
The name Justin of Trebizond was returned in May 2005 for lack of evidence that Justin was the submitter's legal modern name. However, further examination of the submitted documentation showed that such proof had been included with the submission. Therefore, the name was registerable as submitted. We are correcting this error here and registering the name at this time.
Blazoned on the LoI as per chevron, the line of division is too low to be considered a field division. We have thus reblazoned this as a point pointed.
Nice name!
Submitted as Thorvaldr skegglauss, the submitter requested authenticity for 11th C Danelaw (Northeast England). Orle found Turold dated to 1065 and Thorald dated to 1115 in Fellows-Jensen, Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. We have found no examples of the byname skegglaus in the Danelaw, although it is a perfectly good Norse byname for this period. It seems likely that, if this name were found in that place and time, this is a reasonable form for it. We have changed the name to Thorald skegglauss to partially comply with his request for authenticity.
The device was submitted on a non-standard form. While we are accepting this, the College of Arms is reminded that the use of non-standard forms may be grounds for return.
There is a more than 300 year gap between the dated spelling of the given name and the dated spelling of the byname. This is one step from period practice.
This is a more than 300 year gap between the date of the submitted spelling for the given name and the date of the submitted form of the surname. This is one step from period practice.
Her old name, Anneis Blanke, is released.
Nice badge!
This lantern does not match the one shown in the Pictorial Dictionary; however, it is obviously a lantern and is registerable. The submitter provided period documentation for this style of lantern (http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/medieval/francais/c186.htm). The presence or absence of a candle need not be blazoned.
There are two Duncan Kerrs registered - one through Caid (registered 01/2000) and one through the East (registered 08/2000); they are not the same person. (It was obviously done in error; unfortunately, since each has the name grandfathered, it can't be corrected withouth their approval.) This badge is to be associated with the Duncan Kerr registered through the East.
Submitted under the name Eddval Tvístangir.
The garb overlaps the trimount slightly. As Nebuly notes "It is quite common in central European heraldry to find a charge atop a trimount that also overlaps the mount just a bit." For example, the Armorial de Gelre, 1414, fo.40, shows a bird standing on a trimount with its feet slightly overlapping the trimount's edge.
This violates RfS VIII.2.b - Contrast Requirements as the field is divided into more than two parts and the tinctures do not have good contrast; however, the field is grandfathered to the submitter and is thus registerable.
This is clear of Laetitia of Blackthorn, Sable, two scarpes gules fimbriated Or. Armory with three or more bendlets is equivalent to a bendy field. As Laetitia's device has only two bendlets, it is not equivalent to the field. John's device is clear of Laetitia's by RfS X.1, the removal of primary charges. Normally there would be a visual conflict between Bendy sininster X and Y and X, two scarpes Y; however, the fimbriation in this case is wide enough (each is half the width of the scarpe) to remove the visual conflict.
His previous device, Bendy sinister sable and gules, on a mullet Or a fountain, is retained as a badge.
This is clear of the device of Joseph Peschur, Vert, a fish naiant, pierced by an arrow bendwise inverted Or, with CDs for changing the type and orientation of half of the primary charges (the curragh vs. the arrow).
A curragh, or coracle, is a small round boat made from hides stretched over a wicker frame. It's been registered in the SCA, in the device of Ciaran Cluana Ferta, 02/1994.
We recommend that yellow highlighters not be used for Or. When scanned, the yellow is lost and the charges/fields appear to be argent rather than Or.
Nice armory!
Periwinkles normally have five petals. The periwinkles on her device have five, not six, petals, though the petal shape is identical.
Toi is her legal given name.
The name Toi is found as a masculine name in Luther's translation of the Bible, 2nd Samuel 8:10.
Submitted as Ulrich des Dunkelberges, the submitter accepted only minor changes. Changing the article des to von would be a major change. However, correspondance with the submitter revealed that he would accept this change. The locative byname should not be in the genitive form (e.g. ending in -es.) We have changed the name to Ulrich von Dunkelberg to correct the grammar.
This is clear of Roise inghean ui Ruaidhri, Gules, on a fess rayonny argent between two arrows fesswise reversed Or three roses proper. There is a CD for removing the arrows. There is a second CD under RfS X.4.j.ii. as there is a substantial difference between a roundel and a rose.
This is clear of the Red Cross (important non-SCA arms), Argent, a cross couped gules. There is a substantial (X.2) difference a cross couped and a cross botonny.
The March 2004 LoPaD pended Elena of Calontir's device to consider whether or not the Russian Naval Ensign, Argent, a saltire azure should be protected. Her device was registered on the October 2004 LoAR without comment. While not stated explicitly, it was determined at that time that the Russian Naval Ensign was not important enough to protect. We are hereby stating explicitly that the Russian Naval Ensign is not protected armory.
As documented, the byname de Glonn has two problems. First, the double-n is unattested. The documentation shows Glon as the placename from which the surname Glonner is derived. In this case, the double n is the result of adding the suffix -er to the name. Therefore, the spelling of the actual locative in German should be Glon. However, this raises problem number two -- de is not a German locative preposition, while Glon is a German placename. We would change the locative byname to von Glon, but changing the language of a name element is a major change, which the submitter will not accept. Luckily, de is an element found in English placenames. RfS III.1.a says "In the case of place names and other name elements frequently used in English in their original form, an English article or preposition may be used. For example, of Aachen might be used instead of the purely German von Aachen." This is the basic statement of our lingua anglica rule. In searching the web, the spelling Glonn is found as a standard English form of this German placename. Therefore, the name is registerable as a fully English name with a translated German byname.
Several of the commenters questioned the interpretation on the LoI about what Dauzat, Dictionnaire Etymologique des Noms de Famille et Prenoms de France says about the surname Dantan. The entirety of Dauzat's discussion of the byname Dantan gives two possible derivations for the byname. The first possible derivation is from dent, tooth: the name may be another variation of the adjectival bynames Dentu and Danté, basically "toothed." The second possible derivation is from the phrase d'antan, meaning "of olden days, of yesteryear." The second derivation is further supported by the fact that the tooth bynames can be found both with and without the definite article: Dentu/Ledentu, Danté/Ledanté, but Ledantan is not found as a byname, arguing against a "tooth" derivation for Dantan.
Several commenters questioned whether or not the byname needs to be feminized: in this case, it does not. In French, an adjectival byname agrees in gender with the noun it modifies (Dentu, toothed, would become Dentue if describing a woman); many noun-based occupational and descriptive bynames have different masculine and feminine forms (chanteur/chanteuse, leroux/larousse). However, nouns found as the object of a preposition in a byname (mostly you will find locatives or placenames in this position) do not change their gender; d'Antan is an appropriate form for use in either a masculine or feminine byname.
The submitter requested authenticity for France. Both the given name and surname are documented in French-language sources. We have a solid period citation for the given name Sabine, but d'Antan is undated. However, Dantan is found in Aryanhwy ferch Catmael, "French Names from Paris 1421, 1423, & 1438." This can only be an evolution of the article+noun construction, d/Antan, so this is a fully documented period French name.
Submitted as Baudoin le Pevrier, the submitter requested authenticity for French language/culture. The given name is documented to 1292 in Colm Dubh, "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris." In this document, occupational bynames are literal and appear in all lowercase. We have changed the name to Baudoin le pevrier to match the documentation.
Her old name, Kristel Lia O'Ciaragain, is released.
The submitter is a viscountess and thus entitled to display a coronet.
Several commenters questioned the identifiablity of the letter G and the crown. The submitted emblazon is identical to that previously submitted and returned due to color-shifting. At that time, no mention was made of style problems. We are therefore giving the submitter the benefit of the doubt and registering this badge.
Submitted under the name Kathryn of Abdera.
Submitted as Randalín in Kyrra, by precedent, descriptive bynames in Old Norse are registered in all lowercase. We have changed the name to Randalín in kyrra in order to register it.
The submitter requested authenticity for early 12th C Norwegian. The name was documented from Geirr Bassi Haraldsson, The Old Norse Name, but the earliest verifiable date we have been able to find for it is in Lind, Norsk-Isländska Dopnamn ock Fingerade Namn frĺn Medeltiden in 1250. Therefore, it is doubtful that this given name is appropriate for the early 12th C.
This name mixes Middle Irish and post-1200 Scottish Gaelic; this is one step from period practice.
Submitted under the name Agnes de Tynegate.
Please advise the submitter that the tower should be drawn smaller so that it does not touch the edges of the tree.
When summarizing documentation, especially in languages other than English, it is important to note more information about a name than just form + date. It is useful to know the gender of the name elements, as well as whether the elements are given names or bynames, and if bynames, what sort of bynames they are.
His old name, Roghallach the Strong, is released.
This name mixes Gaelic and English; this is one step from period practice. If the submitter is interested in a more authentic name with a nearly identical pronunciation, we suggest Anne Whyterose. Anne is cited in the 14th and 16th C in Talan Gwynek, "Feminine given names in A Dictionary of English Surnames."
Nice armory!
The submitter specifically requested authenticity for 15th C Irish on his form. In fact, this turns out to be a reasonable late 15th C/early 16th C Irish name. However, this request is not clearly summarized on the LoI. Because the Northshield forms have a section that says "If my name must be changed I care most about _______", and the summarization said only "Changes: If the name must be changed, client cares most about language/culture, being Irish 15th century", commenters did not address whether the name was authentic. Had the name not already been authentic for the client's desired culture and time period, we would have been forced to pend this name to allow time for the College of Arms to address the submitter's request.
Submitted as Skerjaströnd, Shire of, the ö represents an o-ogonek. We typically use the transcription {o,} for this character. We have changed the name to Skerjastr{o,}nd, Shire of to match our current transcription standards for this character.
Submitted as Torgeir of Falcons Keep, the byname was intended to represent the SCA branch name Falcon's Keep. Because the branch name includes the apostrophe, we have registered this name as Torgeir of Falcon's Keep.
Although the commenters documented the given name from reasonable sources, the LoI only documented it from "Behind The Name: the etymology and history of first names" (http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/nor2.html). This site is not an acceptable source for documentation for SCA names. It may be used as a starting point, but any name found on it must be documented from other, more scholarly, sources. It should not appear on an LoI as the sole citation for anything.
The Greek chimera has the body and head of a lion, a dragon's tail, and a goat's head grafted to the small of the back. The tail may end in a dragon's head, as in this case. It is distinguished from the schimäre, or German chimera, which has "the forequarters of a lion, the hindquarters of a goat, a dragon's tail (often ending in a dragon's head), and often the head and breasts of a woman." (Kevin Burnett, LoAR of 09/1992) Both of these differ enough from the standard heraldic chimera that it seemed best to give them their own terminology.
The submitter has permission to conflict with Dafydd Morrison, Per pale sable and Or, a cross of Santiago counterchanged.
This is clear Matteo del Oceano, Per pale sable and Or , a cross within a bordure counterchanged. There is a CD for removing the bordure. Precedent grants a CD between a cross throughout and a cross formy throughout (q.v., Jessimond of Greencrosse, 11/2003, Acceptances-An Tir), providing the second CD.
This name does not conflict with Robert Wylmot registered February 1987, because the bynames are significantly different in sound and appearance. The given names are equivalent (Rab is a diminutive of Robert, and RfS V.1.a.i says "Irrespective of differences in sound and appearance, a given name is not significantly different from any of its diminutives"). However, the rules for bynames are somewhat less strict than the rules for given names. Although RfS V.1 states that "Two bynames of relationship are significantly different if the natures of the relationships or the objects of the relationships are significantly different," the examples make it clear that this is an issue only if the two names are not significantly different in sound and appearance. As Wylmot and Wylkyn are significantly different in sound and appearance, the names are clear.
Submitted as Síle Ó Daragh, the name has several problems. First, it mixes a Gaelic feminine given name with a Gaelic masculine patronymic marker; in Gaelic, patronymic markers must match the gender of given name of the bearer. Second, the patronymic mixes the Irish patronymic marker Ó with the Anglicized form Daragh; this violates RfS III.1.a, which says "Each phrase must be grammatically correct according to the usage of a single language." Finally, Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames, the source from which Daragh is documented shows it as a modern form. No evidence was presented and none found to suggest that Daragh is a period form of this name. If the patronymic is changed to its appropriate Gaelic form and the gender of the particle changed to match the bearer's given name, the name will be registerable. The given name is Early Modern Irish, so the patronymic should be changed to the appropriate Early Modern Irish form. Woulfe notes that this patronymic is derived from the name Dubhdarach; a search of CELT (http://www.ucc.ie/celt) finds that the most likely Early Modern Irish form is Duibh Darach. Therefore, we have changed this name to Síle inghean Duibh Darach in order to register it.
This is clear of the College of Saint Bartholomew's badge, Sable, on an open book argent, a bee sable, banded Or. There is a CD between a scroll and a book. The changes to the tertiary charge provides the second CD.
Her previous device, Argent, three cinquefoils and on a chief purpure a needle Or, is released.
Leonus's device is a lion jumping through a hoop that is bendwise; the lion and the hoop are co-primary. Registered 06/1975 with the blazon Azure, a lion salient to sinister queue fourchee piercing an annulet Or, this was reblazoned 12/2000 as Azure, a lion salient contourny queue-fourchy enfiled of an annulet Or. The hoop isn't a "annulet" since it isn't round, and the lion enfiles the hoop rather than the other way around.
Submitted as Rulff Sřrensen, the submitter requested authenticity for 14th-16th C Scandinavia. In this case, the given name is documented as 16th C Norwegian, while the patronymic is documented as Swedish from the same period. Diplomatarium Norvegicum, http://www.dokpro.uio.no/dipl_norv/diplom_field_eng.html, shows the spelling Sřrensřn in a diplomatic visa from 1540. We have, therefore, changed the name to Rulff Sřrensřn, a fully 16th C Norwegian form, to comply with the submitter's request for authenticity.
Submitted as Svana í SviŢjóđ, the thorn is in uppercase, where it should be in lowercase. We have changed the name to Svana í Sviţjóđ; this spelling of the byname is found in Cleasby/Vigfusson "An Icelandic-English Dictionary" which states "i Danmörku, Gautlandi eđr í Svíţjóđ, N. G. L. ii. 277; afterwards used as a general name for the later Swedish empire..."
Some question arose whether í Sviţjóđ or in s{oe}nska was the correct form for this byname. These are both correct forms; the first is a pure locative form while the second is an ethnic form.
Please advise the submitter that the embattlements should be drawn deeper.
- Explicit littera accipendorum -
This name has several problems. Even after we resolve one major problem we are able to fix, the name is two steps from period practice. First, the spelling of the given name is modern. This spelling was documented from Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames, from the section that crossreferences modern Irish given names with their modern English equivalents. Although Woulfe has a listing for Mac Aodhghan, use in a patronymic style surname, especially in Ireland where surnames were adopted relatively early, is not proof that a particular given name remained in use. Luckily, the name is found in period in the spellings Aeducan (in documents that use Middle Irish orthography) and Aodhogan (in documents that use Early Modern Irish orthography). However, this leads to the second problem -- the latest date the commenters were able to find where the given name is used as a given name (as opposed to a byname) is the mid 9th C. The earliest date found for the locative byname is the mid 13th C. Therefore, there is a temporal gap of more than 300 years between the dates for the two names, which is a step from period practice. In addition, the name mixes Gaelic and Anglo-Norman, which is also one step from period practice. As we are unable to either find an Anglicized version of the given name or a Gaelic version of the byname, or a version of the byname dated before the 13th C, we are unable to make the name registerable.
This device is returned for a redraw. The chevron is not wavy enough and at any distance it appears to be a plain chevron. The tree could be drawn smaller to allow the chevron to be drawn wider.
The tree is nicely eradicated.
This name is presumptuous of Bacchus, Roman God of wine. Taken together, the name may be translated as "Great Bacchus." While each part of the name may be found as a given name used by humans, the combination of the two makes too strong a suggestion of divinity.
The device was registered under the holding name Bacchus of Ambergard.
The "azure" is neither blue nor purple, which is grounds for return. Even if the tincture of the field had not been a problem, this would have been returned for conflict with Jerimia von Braun, Azure, two domestic cats sejant respectant, tails sufflexed and crossed in saltire, Or. There is a single CD for changing the posture of the cats. It also conflicts with Leonus de Rotund, reblazoned elsewhere in this letter as Azure, in saltire a cartouche voided and a lion salient contourny queue-fourchy, the lion passing through the cartouche, all Or. Leonus's device is a lion jumping through a hoop that is bendwise; the lion and the cartouche are co-primary. There is a single CD for changing the cartouche to a lion.
This is being returned for a redraw. The book should not touch the line of division as that affects the identifiability of both the charge and the line of division. The line of division is not properly drawn; it seems to start as a straight Per pale where it issues from chief and base, and then becomes Per pale embattled about one crenellation into the shield. And, as mentioned in the previous return, the chief should be drawn wider. While any one of these problems alone may not be cause for return, when combined they are enough to require a redraw.
No evidence was submitted and none found for double-given names in Byzantine naming practice. Barring such evidence, double-given names in Byzantine names are not registerable. We would drop one of the given names to register this name, but the submitter will not accept major changes.
A competent heraldic artist would not recreate the emblazon from this blazon or any blazon we could devise, thus this must be returned under RfS VII.7.b. If the submitter wishes to resubmit an open chest drawn in this fashion (that is, with the lid vertical), it must be accompanied by period heraldic examples.
This name combines a given name meaning "Queen" with a territorial byname; this violates RfS VI.1 which says "Names documented to have been used in period may be used, even if they were derived from titles, provided there is no suggestion of territorial claim or explicit assertion of rank" We would drop the locative byname, but the submitter will not accept major changes.
This is returned for a redraw. RfS VII.7.a requires that each element be recognizable solely from its appearance. While a stalk of wheat is registerable, in this emblazon, the stalk of wheat is not identifiable as such. The curvature of this stalk hindered the identifiablity of the charge to an excessive degree. We recommend the submitter also use a more standard scroll on resubmission.
This was withdrawn by the submitter.
This submission was originally blazoned on the LoI as a lozenge fesswise. As previously noted "Because lozenges could be drawn with various proportions in period, including a square set on its corner (which can be neither fesswise nor palewise), it does not make sense to distinguish different proportions of lozenge in blazon. [Cecily of Whitehaven, 02/02, A-Ćthelmearc]". This is not a lozenge throughout because it touches only two sides. We were unable to derive a blazon that would reproduce this emblazon.
This is being returned for a redraw. At any distance this appears to be a plain line chevron; there should be half many engrailings and they should be twice as deep.
None.
This conflicts with College of Wittanhaven, Per bend rayonny azure and argent, a laurel wreath argent and a pine tree vert. There is a CD for changes to the field. The location of the laurel wreath is forced, therefore there is not a second CD for arrangement.
Please advise the submitters on resubmission that there should be half as many embattlements and that the traits should be of equal width.
None.
The College of Arms found no evidence for Jewish communities in Scotland or for substantial contact between Jewish communities outside of Scotland and Scotland in period. Barring such evidence, names combining non-Biblical Jewish names with Scots or Scottish Gaelic are not registerable.
There are serious problems with both parts of this name. The given name, Eddval, comes from Örvar-Odds saga which is one of the legendary sagas; e.g. it is based on legend and/or mythology. While legend may or may not have a historical basis, recording history was not the purpose of these sagas. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica "The legendary sagas are essentially romantic literature, offering an idealized picture of the remote past, and many of them are strongly influenced by French romance literature. In these sagas the main emphasis is on a lively narrative, entertainment being their primary aim and function." Therefore, we should treat these works like we would any period work of fiction. The standard that we apply for registration of names from works of fiction is that the name must be the name of a major character. This is not the case here. The character Eddval is mentioned once in this saga in a list of several kings who come from the East to pay tribute; this is the character's sole mention in the saga. Just as we do not register names from Arthurian literature that occur once in passing, we cannot register names from legendary sagas that occur once in passing.
The byname, Tvistangir, meaning "two poles" is a reasonable attempt to construct an Old Norse byname. The two elements used in the construction are documented individually and in various compound words and nicknames. The byname appears to be well formed grammatically. However, neither the resulting meaning nor the intended meaning follow patterns found in Old Norse bynames. The submitter posited that this might be a nickname for a norseman who fought with two pole weapons. Cleasby-Vigfusson, An Icelandic-English Dictionary does have burt-stöng "tilt-pole, lance" from Karla-magnus Saga (13th C life of Charlemagne) and Magus Saga (a mythical saga of about the same period). However, no documentation was submitted that the word St{o,)ng "pole" (stangir is the plural, "poles") is used uncompounded to denote any sort of weapon, or that it was used in the Viking period to denote any sort of weapon. With the exception of burt-stöng, the examples we found of compounds of the word stöng tended to mean just a plain old "pole." We have no examples of bynames of the pattern "two + object"; the only byname we have that follows a similar pattern is tvennumbrúni "twin-browed" or "shaggy browed" and this name describes a physical characteristic rather than an object possessed by the bearer.
The device was registered under the holding name Edward of Smoking Rocks.
This is returned for lack of documentation. This would be the defining instance of a quill pen nib. Defining instances of charges require higher standards of documentation than registrations of previously registered charges and no documentation was provided with this submission. The apparent prior registrations of a quill pen nib were ambiguous blazons; they have been reblazoned to a quill pen its nib....
This conflicts with Bela of Eastmarch, (Tinctureless) A grape leaf inverted dependent from a tendril. There is not a CD between a grape leaf and a ivy leaf. The tendril in Bela's badge is equivalent to a maintained charge. Thus there is a single for fieldless/tinctureless per RfS X.4.a.iii.
Conflict with Order of the Sea Dragon, registered to the Kingdom of Atlantia on the August 2004 LoAR. Although the submitter allowed a necessary change of designator from keep to inn to match documented English naming patterns, this does not clear the conflict. Designators are transparent for purposes of conflict.
This is returned for redraw of the laurel wreath. Laurel wreaths must, by long standing precedent, be drawn in a circular, or mostly circular, shape. This laurel wreath needs to be more closed with the tips of the laurel wreath much closer together.
Listed on the LoI as Osgrim Scrökeisen, the forms showed Osgrim Schrökeisen. The discussion below is based on the spelling found on the forms, and the form on this LoAR has been changed to reflect that spelling. The submitted intended Schrökeisen as a spelling variant of Schreckseisen, but has not demonstrated that this spelling is a reasonable German spelling. The problem here is that the protheme Schreck- is found in names as Schröck, but not as Schrök. The byname, Schröckseisen is, according to Brechenmacher, , a nickname for a blacksmith meaning "frighten iron". This work dates Schröckseisen to 1579. Bahlow/Gentry, German Names s.n. Schreck lists Schreckeisen undated. We have found two mentions of the name Schreckeisen on the web. The first is on "MOnasteriuM - virtual documents archive of Central European cloisters and diocese" (http://www.mom.findbuch.net) which lists a Matthais Schreckeisen in a document from Austria dated 1589. However, it is unclear whether the spellings on this site are normalized. An auction catalog found at http://www.galeriefischer.com/ lists a dem Waffenschmied Peter Schreckeisen in 1568; again, it is unclear whether this is a normalized spelling. We would be willing to give the submitter the benefit of the doubt that Schröckeisen was a period variant of this name. However, we have found no examples of this name, or of other names based on the protheme Schreck-/Schröck- that end in -k instead of -ck. Given a fairly sizable collection of these names with no examples of just a -k ending, we believe that the submitted spelling is not a valid variant. The submitter will not accept any changes except changing the vowel ö in the byname to an o. Therefore, we are forced to return the name.
We note that there is a more than 300 year gap between the pre-1150 date for the given name and the 16th C date for appropriate forms of the byname. This is one step from period practice. There may be an additional step for mixing Old Frisian or Germanic (the language of the given name) with Mittelhochdeutsch. We are not ruling on this matter at this time, but the submitter should consider that such combinations may not be registerable.
This device conflicts with Thomas Rumboll, Or, three dragons segreant sable. There is a CD for the arrangement of the charges. When comparing the registered and submitted armory there is not a CD for changing the orientation of one of the three charges (the dexter dragon). Nor is there a CD for changing the type and tincture of one of three charges (dragon to sword) when the changed charge is not the bottom-most of three charges arranged two and one.
This submission was withdrawn by the submitter.
If it had not been withdrawn, it would have been returned for conflict with Elspet Arbuthnoth Per saltire Or and sable, two fleurs-de-lis Or. There is a CD for changes to the field. There is not a CD for the placement of the fleurs-de-lys since the fleurs-de-lys in Elspet's badge are forced to be on the sable portions of the field.
This name combines English and Greek; such combinations were declared unregisterable in January 2003. The spelling Kathryn is asserted to be the submitter's legal given name, but no proof of this was provided by the submitter. Without such proof, the name must be documented and treated as any other documented name. Had such proof been provided, this name would become registerable via the legal given name allowance.
There was some question as to whether the spelling Kathryn is registerable at all without resorting to the legal given name allowance. Research has shown that the spelling Kathrin is found at the end of the 16th C and in the gray area. Notes from "The Register...The Parish of Ballaugh" (http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxnb/v02p055.htm) shows three examples of Kathrin: Kathrin Kneen uxor Tho: Kennall, buryed 2nd October, 1598, Kathrin Corraige, infant, buryed 12th November, 1599, and Kathrin Quayle, daughter of Jon, bap: ye Ist of July, 1608. The spelling Kathrin also appears in 1635 in Sandy Coleman's transcription of marriage records from Middlesex, England, "Middlesex Parish Records" (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/Sumter/k.html). Given that the i->y switch is well attested in English naming practices, Kathryn seems a reasonable late period variant of Kathrin.
Her device has been registered under the holding name Kathryn of South Downs.
The submitter is a viscount and thus entitled to display a coronet.
This conflicts with a badge for the Kingdom of the East, (Fieldless) On a dexter glove aversant argent, a rose azure charged with another Or. There is CD for fieldlessness. Changing the type only of the tertiary is not worth a CD as this is not a simple case under RfS X.4.j.ii. The removal of the quaternary rose is not worth anything; nor is the addition of the essentially "maintained" crown. In both cases you have an argent glove charged with an azure tertiary; therefore the CD for fieldlessness is the only CD.
Unfortunately this conflicts with Rayne Moyra O'Ciaragain, Per chevron argent and vert, three cinquefoils pierced one and two sable and a beehive Or. There is a CD for changes to the field. Rayne's charges are arranged in cross, thus there is not a CD for arrangement. Nor is there a CD for changing the type and tincture of one of four charges.
This conflicts with Katherine of Scarborough, Quarterly vert and argent, two roses argent. There is a CD for changes to the field; however, as Katherine's roses are forced to the vert quarters there is not a CD for arrangement.
This does not conflict with Alyse Lillias Stewart Per pale azure and gules, in saltire a garden rose, slipped and leaved and a needle, eye to base argent. There is a CD for changing the type of half the primary charges and another for their arrangement.
This is returned for conflict. Commenters questioned whether or not this was a valid, period design and, if it was, how would it be considered for conflict checking purposes.
There are many period examples of lines of division (not just per chevron) being "mutated" to form charges. We tend to blazon them as "charges issuant from the line of division".
All of the following examples are from Siebmacher, 1605:
plate 24: Rumpff (second quartering), Per bend Or and sable, issuant from the line of division a trefoil bendwise sinister and another inverted counterchanged.
plate 81: von Hermbsdorf, Per fess engrailed of two argent and gules, issuant from the point a leaf gules.
plate 85: die Feur von Au, Per chevron inverted ployé argent and gules, issuant from the point a trefoil inverted argent.
This submission follows these examples and is period in design. If there were multiple charges issuant from the line of division, such as fleury-counter-fleury (with demi-fleurs-de-lys issuant in alternating directions from a straight line), this would be a complex line of division. With a single charge issuant from the line of division, this is treated as a charge. We grant no difference between Per chevron, issuant from the point a charge and Per chevron, in chief a charge.
Thus this conflicts with Ulrich Drachendonner Tierced in pall azure, gules and sable, in chief a compass star argent. There is one CD for changes to the field. There is no difference between a compass star and a mullet of eight points, nor is there a difference for the location of the charge.
We note that this was an appeal of a kingdom return. The appeal in part cited the registration of Pendar the Bard's device Per chevron ployé Or and azure, a demi-fleur-de-lys issuant from the line of division azure as the basis for the design and stated that if the same logic used for the return of Katerine's device then Pendar's should have been returned for mulitple conflicts. This is not valid grounds for an appeal; the College of Arms is not bound by its past mistakes (except as the "grandfather" clause applies). While not conflict checked at this time, it should be noted that in Pendar's case there is a difference between a demi-fleur-de-lys and a fleur-de-lys. This difference would clear most, if not all, of the potential conflicts with Pendar's design.
This was withdrawn by the kingdom.
This was withdrawn by the kingdom.
No documentation was presented and none found to show that the term Hessian is one that was used in period. Although Bahlow/Gentry, German Names s.n. Hess does say "Margrave Rudolf of Baden ''who was called a Hessian'' 1325", this is a translated term. The original German text makes it clear that the name derives from the given name of his father "Hesso". Because Hess is also a region of Germany, an ethnic byname does not seem unlikely. However, the term Hessian does not appear in English until the late 17th C, well after our gray area. We would change the name to John von Hesse, but this is an aural conflict with Jan van Hees registered April 1998.
- Explicit littera renuntiationum -
This is pended to allow the College to conflict check under the correct tinctures. Blazoned on the LoI as Per chevron throughout Or and sable, two ravens addorsed and a pegasus segreant counterchanged, the field and the pegasus are argent not Or. Given the relative sizes of the charges, this is more accurately blazoned as a pile inverted. This is clear of Brann Morgan Dunmore Argent, upon a pile inverted throughout, between two ravens sable, a tower argent with a CD for changing the orientation of half the secondaries and another for changing the type of tertiary per X.4.j.ii.
This was item 3 on the Drachenwald letter of May 26, 2005.
This is pended to allow the College to conflict check under the correct tinctures. Blazoned on the LoI as Quarterly sable and azure, an estoile of eight rays and in chief three increscents argent the primary charge is Or not argent. This is pended to allow the commenters to conflict check under the correct tinctures. The primary charge has a large central disk, making it a sun rather than an estoile.
This was item 28 on the East letter of May 26, 2005.
When changes are made to names in kingdom, the original spelling and the reasons for the change must be stated on the LoI. This is important to help the commenters address the submitter's desires. The name was originally submitted as Agnes of Tyne; it was changed to the form Agnes de Tynegate in kingdom although there was no information in the LoI discussing this change nor was the spelling updated on the form. Furthermore, the submitter indicated a desire for a name authentic for 12th-14th C Northern England which was not mentioned on the LoI or addressed by the submitters. Summarization of the checkboxes is also required on an LoI. Because the LoI lacked this required information, we are pending this submission to give the commenters time to better evaluate it given full information about the submission.
Here's the summary of this name, from the Middle letter of May 25, 2005:
[Agnes] -- "Feminine Given Names in 'A Dictionary of English Surnames'" by Talan Gwynek, [Agnes] c. 1153, 1160
[Tynegate] recorded in Cumberland in 1332 (Reaney & Wilson s.n. <Tinegate>)
The English preposition <of> is much less likely than <de> in a documentary form with a Latinized forename, but it's not completely out of the question, so <de> could be replaced by <of>.
In the original submission, Tyne was documented as a the name of a river from a medieval map of England found at http://www.pitt.edu/~medart/image/england/england2/mapsengl/msh1066.jpg. The maps on this site are from Shepherd, William R. Historical Atlas, (New York: Barnes and Noble, 1929) , so while the locations noted on them are probably of the appropriate period, the spellings are modern.
Her device was registered under the holding name Agnes of Cynnabar.
This was item 1 on the Middle letter of May 26, 2005.
This is pended to allow commenters to conflict check with the correct tinctures. Blazoned on the LoI as a grey granite tower proper, the emblazon shows a dark gray tower, which is equivalent to sable, not argent. The amount of overlap between the tridents and the castle is not sufficient to obscure the identity of either and is thus registerable.
Despite laying on the argent field, the grey granite tower proper on the barony's device, Azure, on a pale argent a mermaid erect affronty proper, scaled Or, crined vert maintaining in her right hand a trident bendwise sinister and in her left and upraised hand a grey granite tower proper, and in base a laurel wreath vert, is equivalent to argent, not sable.
This was item 8 on the Middle letter of May 26, 2005.
- Explicit -
Created at 2005-12-15T00:49:45