Collected Precedents of the S.C.A.: Lithuanian

Name Precedents: Lithuanian

Laurel: Date: (year.month.date) Precedent:

Shauna of Carrick Point 2004.04 This name is returned for a number of reasons. First, the documentation for the place name Risna is insufficient to determine whether this is a reasonable transcription of a period place name. The name is found in an index to an English translation of a Victorian-era history of Russia; the date is attached to a different spelling, Riasno, to which Risna is cross referenced. The index gives no indication whether the spellings are period forms, if they are normalized, or if the modern names are used. Without this information, we cannot register this spelling. If the submitter wishes to research this name further, finding the work in which this name is found, Vol. 4 Russia Under the Tatar Yoke, 1228-1389, Helen Y. Prochazka, London, England, and seeing what it says about it and about how the names are handled would be useful. In future uses of this source as documentation, submitters should include enough information from the introduction to explain how names are treated. For further research, the submitter may consider searching for Ryasna in Belarus, which is probably the preferred modern name for this place.

The second problem is that the name mixes an English given name with a Lithuanian byname. As no documentation was submitted showing contact between these two cultures, and none found by the College, such combinations cannot be registered. The submitter may want to consider using a German form of Katherne, since there was contact between Germany and Lithuania in period. Some forms are Katherin 1337, Katherine 1366, and Kethe 1365.

Finally, the name combines a German preposition with a Lithuanian name in the same name phrase. The Rule for Submission III.1.a says "Each phrase must be grammatically correct according to the usage of a single language." Barring documentation that Risna is a German form of this place name, these two words cannot be combined in a name phrase. A better alternative would be to use an appropriate Lithuanian form for the locative byname. However, since we do not know the appropriate form for the place name, we are unable to suggest its byname form. [Katherne von Risna, 04/04, R-Lochac]

François la Flamme 2002.04 This submission is an appeal of the return:
We have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works, and we see no reason to change this policy. However, it does not mean that one can in such cases simply look up random words in a dictionary. At the very least we would expect the submitters to show, first, that the name is grammatically correct and, second, that similar constructions exist somewhere else. These examples of similar names would ideally be from nearby cultures. [Vilku Urvas, Shire of, Middle-R, LoAR 09/2000]

This appeal includes documentation of Lithuanian placenames that have forms of vilkas as the protheme, including Vilkakiemis (dated to the 16th C) and Vilku Kampas (dated to the 4th C or earlier). In the case of Lithuanian, the language did not start being written down until the 16th C. So the dates in these cases refer to the age of the settlement at the location, not the particular form of the name. No documentation was provided that urvas, meaning 'cave, grotto, cavern, cavity or hollow', has been used as an element in Lithuanian placenames even at the present time. Urvikiai and Urviskes are placenames in modern Lithuania (http://www.lietuva-jums.lt/IMI/i_en.jsp?nr=gyvenvietes_u). When compared to other placenames, particularly Vilkiskes (listed at http://www.lietuva-jums.lt/IMI/i_en.jsp?nr=gyvenvietes_v), these two placenames seem to use a form of urvas as a protheme. In conjuction with our traditional policy to be "somewhat more lenient with names from culutres for which we don't have adequate reference works", these examples, combined with the information and examples provided by the submitters, is sufficient evidence to register this branch name.
The appeal expressed the submitters' belief that the originally submitted documentation had been sufficient to support registration of the name. Regardless, they provided additional documentation, and it is that documentation that is allowing this name to be registered (as specified above). The documentation accompanying the original submission in their file consists solely of photocopies from a Lithuanian-English pronunciation dictionary and a book entitled Lithanian Self-Taught. While these sources are good for determining meaning of elements and how to conjugate them properly, they do not address whether the elements in question were used in placenames in period. If documentation that these elements were used in placenames was included in the original submission, then that documentation was misplaced somewhere during the submission process. Though we "have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works", we still need evidence that the submitted elements are ones that are used in placenames. That issue has been resolved with this appeal. [Vilk{u,} Urvas, Shire of, 04/2002, A-Middle]

Elsbeth Anne Roth 2000.09 We have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works, and we see no reason to change this policy. However, it does not mean that one can in such cases simply look up random words in a dictionary. At the very least we would expect the submitters to show, first, that the name is grammatically correct and, second, that similar constructions exist somewhere else. These examples of similar names would ideally be from nearby cultures. [Vilku Urvas, Shire of, 09/00, R-Middle]

Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) 1991.12 [<name> Lietuvos, meaning <name> the Lithuanian>] "While prior Laurel precedent has returned the form '{Name} the {Nationality}', we do not find this presumptuous of the ruler of the country in the same way or to the same degree that, say, '{Name} of {Nation}' would. Hence, we do not find that this name conflicts with <name>, King of Lithuania." (LoAR 12/91 p.12).

Laurel:	Date: (year.month.date)	Precedent:
Shauna of Carrick Point	2004.04	This name is returned for a number of reasons. First, the documentation for the place name Risna is insufficient to determine whether this is a reasonable transcription of a period place name. The name is found in an index to an English translation of a Victorian-era history of Russia; the date is attached to a different spelling, Riasno, to which Risna is cross referenced. The index gives no indication whether the spellings are period forms, if they are normalized, or if the modern names are used. Without this information, we cannot register this spelling. If the submitter wishes to research this name further, finding the work in which this name is found, Vol. 4 Russia Under the Tatar Yoke, 1228-1389, Helen Y. Prochazka, London, England, and seeing what it says about it and about how the names are handled would be useful. In future uses of this source as documentation, submitters should include enough information from the introduction to explain how names are treated. For further research, the submitter may consider searching for Ryasna in Belarus, which is probably the preferred modern name for this place. The second problem is that the name mixes an English given name with a Lithuanian byname. As no documentation was submitted showing contact between these two cultures, and none found by the College, such combinations cannot be registered. The submitter may want to consider using a German form of Katherne, since there was contact between Germany and Lithuania in period. Some forms are Katherin 1337, Katherine 1366, and Kethe 1365. Finally, the name combines a German preposition with a Lithuanian name in the same name phrase. The Rule for Submission III.1.a says "Each phrase must be grammatically correct according to the usage of a single language." Barring documentation that Risna is a German form of this place name, these two words cannot be combined in a name phrase. A better alternative would be to use an appropriate Lithuanian form for the locative byname. However, since we do not know the appropriate form for the place name, we are unable to suggest its byname form. [Katherne von Risna, 04/04, R-Lochac]
François la Flamme	2002.04	This submission is an appeal of the return: We have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works, and we see no reason to change this policy. However, it does not mean that one can in such cases simply look up random words in a dictionary. At the very least we would expect the submitters to show, first, that the name is grammatically correct and, second, that similar constructions exist somewhere else. These examples of similar names would ideally be from nearby cultures. [Vilku Urvas, Shire of, Middle-R, LoAR 09/2000] This appeal includes documentation of Lithuanian placenames that have forms of vilkas as the protheme, including Vilkakiemis (dated to the 16th C) and Vilku Kampas (dated to the 4th C or earlier). In the case of Lithuanian, the language did not start being written down until the 16th C. So the dates in these cases refer to the age of the settlement at the location, not the particular form of the name. No documentation was provided that urvas, meaning 'cave, grotto, cavern, cavity or hollow', has been used as an element in Lithuanian placenames even at the present time. Urvikiai and Urviskes are placenames in modern Lithuania (http://www.lietuva-jums.lt/IMI/i_en.jsp?nr=gyvenvietes_u). When compared to other placenames, particularly Vilkiskes (listed at http://www.lietuva-jums.lt/IMI/i_en.jsp?nr=gyvenvietes_v), these two placenames seem to use a form of urvas as a protheme. In conjuction with our traditional policy to be "somewhat more lenient with names from culutres for which we don't have adequate reference works", these examples, combined with the information and examples provided by the submitters, is sufficient evidence to register this branch name. The appeal expressed the submitters' belief that the originally submitted documentation had been sufficient to support registration of the name. Regardless, they provided additional documentation, and it is that documentation that is allowing this name to be registered (as specified above). The documentation accompanying the original submission in their file consists solely of photocopies from a Lithuanian-English pronunciation dictionary and a book entitled Lithanian Self-Taught. While these sources are good for determining meaning of elements and how to conjugate them properly, they do not address whether the elements in question were used in placenames in period. If documentation that these elements were used in placenames was included in the original submission, then that documentation was misplaced somewhere during the submission process. Though we "have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works", we still need evidence that the submitted elements are ones that are used in placenames. That issue has been resolved with this appeal. [Vilk{u,} Urvas, Shire of, 04/2002, A-Middle]
Elsbeth Anne Roth	2000.09	We have traditionally been somewhat more lenient with names from cultures for which we don't have adequate reference works, and we see no reason to change this policy. However, it does not mean that one can in such cases simply look up random words in a dictionary. At the very least we would expect the submitters to show, first, that the name is grammatically correct and, second, that similar constructions exist somewhere else. These examples of similar names would ideally be from nearby cultures. [Vilku Urvas, Shire of, 09/00, R-Middle]
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure)	1991.12	[<name> Lietuvos, meaning <name> the Lithuanian>] "While prior Laurel precedent has returned the form '{Name} the {Nationality}', we do not find this presumptuous of the ruler of the country in the same way or to the same degree that, say, '{Name} of {Nation}' would. Hence, we do not find that this name conflicts with <name>, King of Lithuania." (LoAR 12/91 p.12).