Collected Precedents of the S.C.A.: Mongol


Name Precedents: Mongol

Laurel: Date: (year.month.date) Precedent:
François la Flamme 2004.03 Jebe is the name of a Mongol general who lived in the 13th century. The byname of Sugdak is a Lingua Anglica form of a locative byname which might have been found in Mongolian or Arabic, as the Arabic traveller Ibn Battuta describes his visit to the Mongol-controlled town, probably in 1332. [Jebe of Sugdak, 03/2004, A-Æthelmearc]
François la Flamme 2003.11 Baatar is a variant spelling of Bahadur which is found in the alternate titles list as a Mongolian equivalent for 'knight'. Therefore, use of Baatar as part of a name violates RfS VI.1 (Names Claiming Rank). [Chinua Baatar, 11/2003, R-An Tir]
François la Flamme 2003.10 Bataar is a variant spelling of Bahadur, which is found in the alternate titles list as a Mongolian equivalent for "knight". Documentation was provided showing that Baatar is used modernly as a given name. Lacking evidence that Baatar was used as a given name in period, it is not registerable. RfS VI.1, "Names Claiming Rank", states in part:

Titles like Earl and Duke generally may not be used as Society names, even if the title is the submitters legal name. Names documented to have been used in period may be used, even if they were derived from titles, provided there is no suggestion of territorial claim or explicit assertion of rank. For example, Regina the Laundress is acceptable but Regina of Germany is not.

Lacking evidence that Baatar was used as a given name in period, it falls into the same category as Earl and is not registerable. [Sogtungui Bataar, 10/2003, R-Æthelmearc]

François la Flamme 2003.09 Submitted as Törägänä Al'altun, the submitter requested authenticity for "Turkic Timund/Central Asian (modernly Uzbekistan) under Jenghiz-Hanite rule" and allowed minor changes.

An earlier version of this name was returned in the April 1999 LoAR. Some issues raised at that time were not addressed in this submission:

The commentary on the problems with the name was done by Pennon who said:

"The documentation that the submitter uses is a good book for Mongol history and a good book for names. But it is not a good book for spelling. The rest of the documentation is fine for each element. But they all really don't go together.

Toragana should be spelled Döregene as it is on page 239 of The Secret History of the Mongols, translation by Francis Woodman Cleaves. T and D are interchangeable in Mongolian so the spelling Töregene is equally as valid. Al Altun is fine as it stands, but not Al Altun-Baki. Al Altun is the original form of the name and could be joined to Al-Altun to form the name Töregene Al-Altun. [Törägänä Al'altun-Bäki Khanzade, 04/99 LoAR, R-Outlands]

The current submission again documents Törägänä from the same source as before, specifically René Grousset, The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia, translated from the French by Naomi Walford. This is the source described in the April 1999 return as "... good book for names ... not a good book for spelling."

The submitter provided additional documentation for the form Törägänä from Jesscia Bonner's article "Mongol Women's Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/jessica-bonner/mongolwomen.html). However, this source gives the header as Toregene. It is not possible to tell from the text of this article whether the form Törägänä is a period transliteration or a modern transliteration. While modern transliterations are registerable, they must follow an accepted transliteration standard. This article provides no support that the form Törägänä follows such a standard. Further, Bonner's article does not indicate where she found the spelling Törägänä in reference to this woman. Without this information, the College is unable to judge the reliability of the original source. Therefore, lacking evidence that Törägänä is a valid spelling, we have changed this name to Töregene as cited in the April 1999 return in order to register this name. [Töregene Al-Altun, 09/2003, A-Outlands]

François la Flamme 2003.06 [Household name Khara Luus Ordu] This submission is being returned for use of Ordu 'Horde' as a designator in a household name, which has been ruled presumptuous:

Additionally, no support was found that a word meaning 'Horde' would not be presumptuous as a designator for a household name. The modern normalized terms Mongol Horde and Golden Horde both refer to period groups of people that were the size of a nation. Lacking evidence that a word meaning 'Horde' would be used to refer to a smaller group of people, it is inappropriate for use as a household name. We would not register Duchy of [placename] as a household name because it is an explicit claim of rank by the owner of the household name and, so, violates RfS VI.1 "Names Claiming Rank". Similarly, without documentation supporting use of a word meaning 'Horde' for groups smaller than a nation, use of a word meaning 'Horde' as the designator in a household name is an explicit claim of rank in the same way as Duchy, violating RfS VI.1. [G�l�g-jab Tangghudai, 04/2002, R-East]

As no evidence was found to demonstrate that the use of Ordu is not presumptuous, this precedent is still valid. [Cicilia of Falkeburn, 06/2003 LoAR, R-Trimaris]

François la Flamme 2003.04 Household name Mönggülig Ordu] No documentation was presented and none was found to show that Mönggülig Ordu 'Silver Horde' is a phrase that would have been used in period Mongol. Metron Ariston explains:

[I]f memory serves, the name Golden Horde on which this is playing was not the Mongols name for themselves but was a descriptive that evolved when they moved to the West and may derived[sic] from the perceived color of their leader's tent. Nonetheless, since Golden Horde apparently was not a Mongol phrase, then one would not think that it would support a Mongol analogue.

Lacking evidence that a name meaning 'Silver Horde' is a reasonable description of a group of people in period Mongol, Mönggülig Ordu is not registerable.

Additionally, no support was found that a word meaning 'Horde' would not be presumptuous as a designator for a household name. The modern normalized terms Mongol Horde and Golden Horde both refer to period groups of people that were the size of a nation. Lacking evidence that a word meaning 'Horde' would be used to refer to a smaller group of people, it is inappropriate for use as a household name. We would not register Duchy of [placename] as a household name because it is an explicit claim of rank by the owner of the household name and, so, violates RfS VI.1 "Names Claiming Rank". Similarly, without documentation supporting use of a word meaning 'Horde' for groups smaller than a nation, use of a word meaning 'Horde' as the designator in a household name is an explicit claim of rank in the same way as Duchy, violating RfS VI.1. [Gülüg-jab Tangghudai, 04/2003 LoAR, R-East]

François la Flamme 2003.01 The question was raised whether the name Subetai is unique to the 13th C Mongol general. Orle provided evidence of other people with this name:

Boyle(Rasid-al-Din) page 27 gives Subedei as brother of Hulegu. Page 33 refers to the general as Subedai Bahadur. Cleaves page 262 refers to Subegei Bo'ol (a slave) son of Ogda Bo'ol; Sube'etei of the Uriangqad; and Sube'edei Ba'adur.

Given these examples, Subetai is not unique and may be registered. [Subetai Nasan, 01/2003 LoAR, A-Atlantia]

François la Flamme 2002.09 Submitted as Badai Doghshin Altai, the submitter requested an authentic 12th C Mongol name. The LoI noted that if the name could not be registered with all three submitted elements, the submitter preferred to drop Doghshin.

No documentation was presented and none was found for a Mongol name with two separate bynames. There is a precedent which was discussed in commentary:

[Chinua Al-Naran] Mongols did not as a rule use three-part names. Fortunately, Pennon has pointed out that there is an uncommon but attested pattern of hyphenated names, to which this submission can easily be made to conform. We have taken his suggestion. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR May 1999, p. 8).

The byname Al-Naran is comprised of two themes, Al 'crimson' and Naran 'sun'. These two meanings can be combined to form the reasonable meaning 'crimson sun'. In the case of the current submission, the bynames Doghshin 'fierce' and Altai 'he who is crimson' are mutually exclusive ideas which could not be combined into a single byname with a plausible meaning.

We have dropped the byname Doghshin, as allowed by the submitter, in order to register this name. [Badai Altai, 09/2002 LoAR, A-Outlands]

François la Flamme 2002.09 The submitter requested authenticity for "15th C Mongolian Uighur, from the time when the Mongols invaded Central Asia and conquered the Uighur."

This name has significant problems. Özbeg was documented as the name of a Mongol clan that derived from the name of a ruler. Aghmighan was documented as an Uighur epithet meaning "yellow weasel". The practice of naming a child for the first thing seen by a mother after birth was documented as a Mongol naming practice. Therefore, the submittered Aghmighan applies Mongol naming practices to an Uighur name. No documentation was found that such a combination is plausible.

However, there is a far greater problem with this name. No documentation was provided and none was found that the Uighur had contact with pre-17th C Western Europe. Lacking such evidence, Uighur falls afoul of the precedent:

More important, significant interaction between Tibet and pre-seventeenth century Western culture has not been demonstrated. The Encyclop�dia Britannica dates the first visits to Tibet by Western missionaries to the 17th century, and the fact that the 8th century Tibetan kingdom had some contact with the Arab conquerors of Iran still leaves Tibetans at least two removes from Western Europe. (Talan Gwynek, LoAR November 1995, p. 16)

Lacking evidence that the Uighur had contact with pre-17th C Western Europe, Uighur is "at least two removes from Western Europe" and so is not registerable. [Özbeg Aghmighan, 09/2002 LoAR, R-Caid]

François la Flamme 2001.12 The submitter provided documentation that bynames indicating a person's tribe may appear before the given name in Mongolian names. Therefore, Mongolian names may be registered with either a tribal byname or given name as the first element. As Uriangqadai is a tribal byname, we are changing this name to the originally requested order. [Uriangqadai {Cv}inoajin, 12/01, A-Ansteorra] [Ed.:The character before "inoajin" should be a Latin capital letter C with caron, a capital C with a small v- or u-shaped mark above it. It was not in Da'ud notation in the LoAR.]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 2001.04 Submitted as Uriangqadai Cinoajin, no evidence was provided that the byname should precede the given name in Mongol names. We have therefore changed the order of the name elements. We have also added the accent to the given name to match the transliteration used in the submitted documentation. [Cinoajin Uriangqadai, 04/01, A-Ansteorra]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 2000.11 Submitted as Teh-Mu-Ginn Burgud Jerekh, the question was raised whether Temugin was a restricted name. However, the March 1998 registration of Timujin Timortologai overturned that precedent after considering new evidence. However, no evidence was given for using hyphens in the transliteration. We have changed the spelling to a likely period one. [Tehmuginn Burgudjerekh, 11/00, A-Atenveldt]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 2000.04 According to Pennon, Avarga may very well mean 'Giant' or 'Big One' in Modern Mongolian, specifically the Khalkhan dialect; also, this fits the pattern of elements used in Mongol naming practices. Unfortunately, however, this would not be the word used in period. The Khalkhan dialect has changed the spelling of some original words and time has added not only words but letters to the language. V is not found in Mongol words prior to 1206 when Genghis Khan ordered the use of the Uighur script for writing Mongolian. Its use came in with the importing of words from other cultures and did not find its way into Mongolian names until after period.

The word the submitter is looking for is Yeke. Meaning literally 'great' it is used as a synonym for 'big' and 'large' also. There are several instances of its use as a personal name element in period. In the Index of the Secret History of the Mongols, translated by Francis Woodman Cleaves (Professor Emeritus of Harvard University) there are 6 instances of Yeke: Yeke Barula, Yeke Cheren, Yeke Chiledü, Yeke Nerghürin, and Yeke Nidün.

The spelling of Chagaadai is modern - a good attempt, but modern none the less. As the submitter allows minor changes, we would have changed it to Chaghadai; however, the change from Avarga to Yeke is far too major for us to make. [Avarga Chagaadai, 04/00, R-Æthelmearc]
Jaelle of Armida 1999.05 [Chinua Al-Naran] Mongols did not as a rule use three-part names. Fortunately, Pennon has pointed out that there is an uncommon but attested pattern of hyphenated names, to which this submission can easily be made to conform. We have taken his suggestion. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR May 1999, p. 8)
Jaelle of Armida 1999.04 The commentary on the problems with the name was done by Pennon who said:

"The documentation that the submitter uses is a good book for Mongol history and a good book for names. But it is not a good book for spelling. The rest of the documentation is fine for each element. But they all really don't go together.

Toragana should be spelled Döregene as it is on page 239 of The Secret History of the Mongols, translation by Francis Woodman Cleaves. T and D are interchangeable in Mongolian so the spelling Töregene is equally as valid. Al Altun is fine as it stands, but not Al Altun-Baki. Al Altun is the original form of the name and could be joined to Al-Altun to form the name Töregene Al-Altun. This I feel is registerable. However, Baki, or better spelled Beki is a title meaning female chieftain or shaman. I have seen it describe both males, females, chieftains and shamans. I am going to request that this be restricted as a title because of its use in period. I have not yet had the needed time to put the research together for this. Al Altun can be found on page 229 of The Secret History of the Mongols. Khanzade, while it may look Mongol is not. It is Arabic or Turkic. There is no reason that pure Mongol and Arabic or Turkic cannot be mixed. The real problem is that Mongols didn't use three part names. I don't say three element names here because they did do three element names, but not of this form. In period the Mongols never would have used Khanzade as a second name.

So in summary, This submitter could have Töregene Al-Altun, Töregene Khanzade, or Al-Altun Khanzade. But Töregene Al-Altun Khanzade matches no known period pattern. There is a later period pattern that might allow Töregenealtun Khanzade." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR April 1999, pp. 19-20)
Jaelle of Armida 1997.07 The byname is Mongolian for Thousand Eyes, which is also the name of the submitter's Barony. Normally we do not register translations of SCA group names. However, the submitter has provided documentation that this follows period Mongolian practice; there was a Mongol chieftain in the court of Kubla Khan whose byname was Hundred Eyes. Since the byname follows documented Mongolian practice it is acceptable. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 7)
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme 1992.09 [Kökejin of the Iron Horde] The Mongol hordes were evidently named for colors, not materials; the Golden Horde wasn't so named because of an abundance of the precious metal. The White Horde and the Blue Horde, cited by Lord Clarion, reinforce this naming pattern. The OED cites the adjective iron "having the appearance of iron; of the colour of iron" from 1613, within our 50-year "grey zone" on documentation; Iron Horde is acceptable only as a very late-period translation of a Mongol term. The more period term for "iron-colored" would be irony. [see also Mochi of the Iron Horde, same page] (Kökejin of the Iron Horde, September, 1992, pg. 20)
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme 1992.08 [Guardian of the Night with a Mongolian first name] The epithet follows no period naming practice of which we are aware; on the surface, it seems so patently fantasy-oriented as to be unacceptable. At the very least, we need some evidence that Mongols styled themselves in this manner. (Jochi, Guardian of the Night, August, 1992, pg. 24)
Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane 1987.05.24 By the submittor's own documentation the given name was that of one of the sons of Genghis Khan. Such names, e.g. Genghis, Temujin, etc., have in the past been returned as unique names failing documentation to demonstrate their more general use in Mongolian society. (LoAR 24 May 87, p. 12)
Baldwin of Erebor 1984.09.28 The name Attila may not be used in conjunction with a white stag, in the name or the device. The mythological connection between Attila the Hun and the Great White Stag is too strong. [BoE, 28 Sept 84, p.15]
Karina of the Far West 1976.10.29 Take another surname. Chagan is a variant of Old Turkish khagan "king, sovereign." Khagan or Kha Khan, the Mongol variant, was rejected as a title by Temujin (Genghis-Khan), though his heirs used it. (KFW, 29 Oct 76 [9], p. 6)
Karina of the Far West 1976.01.30 "Khan" is a royal title and you may not use it. (KFW, 30 Jun 79 [25], p. 12)