See also:
| Laurel: | Date: (year.month.date) | Precedent: |
| Shauna of Carrick Point | 2004.05 | Using a placename in an Order name was declared a step from period practice in 11/96. However, Argent Snail argues, "If you look at the list of order names, there are ones that have place names in them, usually because there is more than one order with the same name -eg the Order of Saint Jaelle of Jersusalem and the Order of Saint Jaelle of London." Meradudd Cethin's "Project Ordensnamen", describes Order names of the form [name+place] as the third most common pattern in the data set. Given such evidence, Order names containing place names are consistent with period practice. However, the Order name Order of the Silver Saddle of Trimaris is one step from period practice. By precedent, use of the descriptive term Silver in an Order name is one step from period practice. [Trimaris, Kingdom of, 05/04, A-Trimaris] |
| Shauna of Carrick Point | 2004.05 | Submitted as Order of the Lion's Paw of Kenmare, we have removed the apostrophe; there is no evidence that the apostrophe was used in period. [Northkeep, Barony of, 05/04, A-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Order of the Silver Sea Urchin] While we have no documentation that Silver would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period, it has been ruled SCA-compatible for use in order and award names in a position where Golden would be appropriate (see the ruling for Award of the Silver Osprey registered by Atlantia in the May 2003 LoAR).
It should be noted that the sea-urchin heraldic charge is a hedgehog with a fish's tail. Though no evidence was presented of its use as a period heraldic charge in this submission, it has been registered as recently as July 2003 and is, therefore, registerable in a heraldic title as an SCA registerable heraldic charge. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, A-Æthelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Ordo Famuli] Submitted as Ordo Primarius Famularis, Primarius was documented from a Latin dictionary as meaning 'in the first rank'. No evidence was provided and none was found to support a word with this meaning in a period order name. Lacking such evidence, we have dropped this element as the submitters allow all changes.
Additionally, the grammar of this order name was incorrect. The form Famularis is an adjective, not a noun. Grammatically correct forms would be Ordo Famuli 'Order of the Servant' and Ordo Famulorum 'Order of the Servants'. As the desired meaning was given as 'Primary or Honored Servant', we have registered this name in the singular form. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, A-Æthelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Órd Seamair] No documentation was presented and none was found that Órd Seamair 'Order of the Shamrock' is a plausible period order name in Gaelic. Specifically, no evidence was found that the construction 'Order of the [heraldic charge]' was used in Gaelic in period. Lacking such evidence, this order name is not registerable. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, R-An Tir] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Order of the Silver Seastar] This name is being returned for non-period style. A seastar is another term for a starfish. The Order of the Starfish was recently returned with the explanation:
The same problems present in the Order of the Starfish are present in the currently submitted Order of the Seastar. Lacking evidence that seastar is a plausible element in a period sign name, it is not registerable in a sign name construction. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, R-An Tir] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Ordo Musarum] No documentation was presented and none was found that an order name meaning 'Order of the Muses' is a plausible order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name is not registerable.
The LoI cited the Order of the Seraphim found in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/). However, an order name referring to a group of angels found in Judeo-Christian religious context is significantly different from a group of demi-goddesses from ancient Greek mythology. As a result, the cited Order of the Seraphim does not support the submitted order name. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, R-An Tir] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.03 | [Order name Ordo Primarius Hippocampus] Primarius was documented from a Latin dictionary as meaning 'in the first rank'. No evidence was provided and none was found to support a word with this meaning in a period order name. Lacking such evidence, Primarius is not registerable in an order name.
As the submitters allow all changes, we would have dropped the element Primarius in order to register this name as Ordo Hippocampus. However, that name would conflict with Order of the Hippocampus, which was registered to Atlantia in April 1998. [Stromgard, Barony of, 03/2004, R-An Tir] |
| François la Flamme | 2004.01 | [Order name Order of Arquites Australes] Submitted as Order of Arquites Australis, based on the documentation, this order name basically means 'Order of Southern Bowmen'. No documentation was presented and none was found that an adjective meaning 'Southern' would have appeared in an order name in period. However, the barony has previously registered Order of the Lux Australis (registered in November 1993), Order of the Flos Australis (registered April 1988), and Order of the Astrum Australis (registered March 1985). Roughly translated, these order names mean 'Order of the Southern Light', 'Order of the Southern Flower', and 'Order of the Southern Star', respectively. Therefore, this basic construction is grandfathered to the barony so long as the noun in the order name is within the rather wide group of 'light', 'flower', and 'star'.
The submitted order name was intended to mean 'Order of the Southern Bowmen', based on the documentation provided in the LoI:
In this case, the grammar of the order name is not quite correct. Metron Ariston explains:
Based on Metron Ariston's information, we have changed the adjective in this order name from the singular Australis to the plural Australes in order to match the plural Arquites referring to bowmen (rather than a single bowman). While Arquites 'bowmen' does not fall into the same category of 'star', 'flower', and 'light' used in the barony's previously registered order names, a word meaning 'bowmen' is reasonable based on examples of period order names referring to plural groups of people such as Militia, Knights, Preachers, etc., listed in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/). As a result, the order name Order of Arquites Australes violates the RfS (due to lack of documentation of 'Southern' in an order name) in the same manner as the previously registered order names. While the word grandfathered via these order names is the singular form Arquitis, it is reasonable to allow the grandfathering to extend to the plural form Arquites because construction of this order name omitting Australes ('Order of the Bowmen') otherwise follows period construction examples. [Citadel of the Southern Pass, Barony of the, 01/2004, A-Outlands] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.12 | [Two badges with the same designator / order name] This submission adds the designation of Order of the Oaken Glade to the following badge, registered in March 1999, (Fieldless) Four oak leaves in cross, stems to center gules, and four acorns in saltire, caps to center Or all conjoined at the center point.
Note that the designation of Order of the Oaken Glade is also attached to their very similar badge registered in May 1999, (Fieldless) Four oak leaves conjoined in saltire stems to center gules between four acorns conjoined in cross caps to center Or. Laurel Clerk did some significant excavations pertaining to these past Darkwater submissions. He eventually determined that, while the combined paperwork of the Letters of Intent, Letters of Acceptance and Return (and associated pend actions), submissions forms, and other paperwork was (to put it mildly) complicated, when all the smoke cleared, both badge submissions had had forms, both had been registered, and both were supposed to be designated for Order of the Oaken Glade. However, the designation was omitted from this badge, and we are thus adding it at this time. [Darkwater, Barony of, 12/2003, A-Trimaris] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.12 | [Order name Order of the Ermine and Gauntlet] Submitted as Order of the Ermine Gauntlet, the only example of Ermine used in an order name in period was in reference to the animal, not to a fur used in heraldry. Metron Ariston explains:
We have changed this order name to Order of the Ermine and Gauntlet, as allowed by the barony, in order to register this name. [Loch Salann, Barony of, 12/2003, A-Artemisia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.12 | [Order name Order of the Serpent's Torque] No documentation was presented and none was found that the pattern [animal/creature]+[possession or adornment] is a plausible construction for an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this order name violates RfS III.2.b.ii, which requires that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards", and must be returned. [An Crosaire, Barony of, 12/2003, R-Trimaris] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.12 | [Order name Ordre de la Plume de l'ange rouge] No documentation was presented and none was found that a name meaning 'Order of the Feather of the Red Angel' is a plausible order name in period. The submission cited a number of period order names, most of which do not in any way support this submission. The Wing of St. Michael is the only period order name cited in this submission that in any way parallels the construction of the submitted order name. However, it is not a true parallel. al-Jamal explains:
Lacking evidence that the submitted order name complies with RfS III.2.b.ii, which requires that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards", this name is not registerable. [An Crosaire, Barony of, 12/2003, R-Trimaris] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.11 | [Order name Order of the Sable Arrows] The order names Order of the Sable Chevronels of Mons Tonitrus and Order of the Sable Harps of Mons Tonitrus were registered to this barony in January 1991. Therefore, the construction Order of the Sable [charge (plural)] is grandfathered to this branch. [Mons Tonitrus, Barony of, 11/2003, A-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.10 | [Order name Order of the Silver Sycamore] While we have no documentation that Silver would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period, it has been ruled SCA-compatible for use in order and award names in a position where Golden would be appropriate (see the ruling for Award of the Silver Osprey registered by the Kingdom of Atlantia in the May 2003 LoAR). [Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 10/2003, A-Æthelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.09 | [Order name Trimaris Navy Kitcheneers] The LoI provided no documentation at all for this order name. It also lacks a designator (such as Order, Guild, etc.). The College was unable to find any evidence that this name follows any type of period naming pattern. Lacking such evidence, this name is not registerable.
Additionally, no evidence was found that Kitcheneers is a word, even modernly. Hund found evidence of a period form of the word kitchener: [Trimaris, Kingdom of, 09/2003 LoAR, R-Trimaris] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.08 | [Order name Order of the Flower of the Desert] Submitted as Order of the Desert Flower, no documentation was submitted and none was found that a toponymic would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name was not registerable as submitted.
Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) dates the order name Star of the Noble House to 1351. This shows one example of a period order name constructed as [Item] of [Generic toponymic]. There are many period order names constructed as [Item] of [Placename] and many generic toponymics used in order names (most famously Temple and Hospital). Therefore, order names in the pattern [Item] of [Generic toponymic] are registerable, assuming that the item and generic toponymic are appropriate. Therefore, as the submitters allow any changes, we have changed this order name to Order of the Flower of the Desert in order to register this name. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 08/2003 LoAR, A-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.08 | [Order name Order of the Pilgrim of the Desert] Submitted as Order of the Desert Pilgrim, no documentation was submitted and none was found that a toponymic would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name was not registerable as submitted.
As the submitters allow any changes, we have changed this order name to Order of the Pilgrim of the Desert in order to register this name. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 08/2003 LoAR, A-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.08 | [Order name Order of the Seraph] Submitted as Companions of the Seraph, the designator Companions does not clearly indicate that an entity is an order. As the last registration of Companions as a designator was in 1981, Companions is not SCA-compatible as a designator. We have changed the designator to Order in order to register this name.
This ruling only affects the registerability of Companions as a designator. Members of an order may be described as Companions of that order. While, as a new submission, this would probably conflict with the Swedish Order of the Seraphim, the conflict is grandfathered to the group, as Seraph Pursuivant was registered to the West in April 1981 for this barony's use, and transferred to Caid in August 1987. (In the past, heraldic titles for branches were required to be registered to their kingdom.) [Angels, Barony of the, 08/2003 LoAR, A-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.08 | [Order name Order of the Radiant Servants] No documentation was provided and none was found that Order of the Radiant Servants follows a period pattern of order names as required by RfS III.2.b.ii, which states in part that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards." Siren explains:
As noted by Siren, the adjectives used to describe groups of people do not include attributes such as Radiant. Lacking evidence that Radiant Servants follows a period pattern used for order names, this order name is not registerable. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 08/2003 LoAR, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.08 | [Award name change to Award of the Orion from Award of Orion] No forms were received for this name submission.
Additionally, a change from Award of Orion to Award of the Orion changes the structure of this name and requires documentation supporting Award of the Orion as a plausible order name following a period pattern as required by RfS III.2.b.ii, which states that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards." No such documentation was submitted. [Ealdormere, Kingdom of, 08/2003 LoAR, R-Ealdormere] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.07 | [Order name Order of the Pensioners of the Venerable Guard] Order of the Venerable Guard was registered to the Outlands in April of 1989.
Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) lists a number of order names that include references to groups of people. Some examples include Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem (11th C), Fools (1380), Argonauts of St. Nicholas (1382), and Nobles of Catalonia (1481). These order names have the construction patterns [group], [group] of [placename], and [group] of [religious figure or reference]. Pensioners refers to a group of people. Venerable Guard also refers to a group of people. Therefore, the submitted order name Order of the Pensioners of the Venerable Guard uses the construction [group] of the [group]. No evidence was found that this construction was used in period, as is required by RfS III.2.b.ii (which states that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards"). Lacking evidence that the submitted construction follows a pattern used in order names in period, this name is not registerable. [Outlands, Kingdom of the, 07/2003 LoAR, R-Outlands] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.07 | [Order name Order of St. Barbara] As we do not register scribal abbreviations, the element St. needs to be spelled out as Saint.
This order name conflicts with three real-world locations, as noted by Argent Snail:
Since branch name references are transparent for conflict purposes, a name such as Order of Saint Barbara of Bright Hills would conflict with the same real world locations as Order of Saint Barbara. However, geographical references that are not the name of an SCA branch count for difference. Therefore, a name such as Order of Saint Barbara of the Hills would be clear of these real world locations. [Bright Hills, Barony of, 07/2003 LoAR, R-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.06 | [Order name Order of the Halo] No documentation was presented and none was found that halo was used as a word in English in period. Further, no evidence was found that Order of the Halo follows a pattern of period orders and awards as required by RfS III.2.b.II. Due to both of these problems, this name must be returned. [Angels, Barony of the, 06/2003 LoAR, R-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.06 | [Order name Order of the Shepherds] There was some question regarding the registerability of Shepherds because it is plural and so falls afoul of the precedent:
More recent information has shown examples of plural nouns that refer to groups of people such as Soldiers, Nobles, et cetera. A list of such order names may be found in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/). Shepherds describes a group of people, is a period term, and is plausible within the rather wide spectrum of terms used to refer to groups of people in Meradudd's article, making Order of the Shepherds registerable. [Gleann Abhann, Principality of, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Meridies] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.06 | [Order name Order of the Aries] Submitted as Order of Aries, there was some discussion about the registerability of this name.
The reference thought of by many commenters was the constellation named Aries. As no evidence has been found that order names were named for constellations in period, this would not be a valid model for an order name in the SCA. However, this submission provided documentation that aries is a noun in Latin meaning 'battering ram' or 'ram'. Order of the Ram would be a plausible order name in English. Metron Ariston provided the fully Latin form of this order name, Ordo Arietis. RfS III.1.a states in part:
For order and award names, we have traditionally allowed the designator and following prepositions and articles (such as Award of, Order of the) to be rendered in English rather than in the language of the rest of the name. Examples from 2000 and forward include:
Based on these examples, Order of the Aries is a registerable order name referring to a ram. Order of Aries would use Aries as a proper noun, rather than a generic noun meaning 'ram', and so would specifically refer to the constellation name. Lacking evidence that order names were based on constellations, the submitted Order of Aries is not registerable. As the submitters allow minor changes, we have added the article the in order to register this name. [Gleann Abhann, Principality of, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Meridies] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.06 | [Order name The Order of the Silver Alce] While we have no documentation that Silver would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period, it has been ruled SCA-compatible for use in order and award names in a position where Golden would be appropriate (see the ruling for Award of the Silver Osprey registered by Atlantia in the May 2003 LoAR). [Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 06/2003 LoAR, A-Æthelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.06 | [Heraldic title Ferret Pursuivant] No documentation was submitted for this name at all. The LoI simply stated that this title was: "previously registered to the West and released in December '93. We now wish to re-register [it]."
Items that are released and resubmitted fall into the category of new submissions. The Grandfather Clause does not apply since the items are no longer registered. Such items must be redocumented when they are resubmitted, just as if they were a new submission. In this case, the issue is moot, as this name conflicts with Ferret Herald, which was registered to Trimaris in May 2002. [West, Kingdom of, 06/2003 LoAR, R-West] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | No documentation was presented and none was found that the combination Glorious + [a heraldic beast or charge] follows a pattern used in period order names. In the example of Glorious St. Mary, dated to 1261 in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/), Glorious is used to describe Mary, the mother of Jesus. As noted by Metron Ariston:
Lacking evidence that Glorious [a heraldic beast or charge] is a plausible pattern for an order name in period, this name is not registerable. [Artemisia, Kingdom of, 05/2003 LoAR, R-Artemisia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order Name Order of the Cherubim] The Order of the Cherubim was returned in the February 2003 LoAR for exact conflict with the House Cherubim also owned by the Barony of the Angels. The LoAR states "... Order of the Cherubim is registerable if House Cherubim is released." Following the publication of the return, a timely request, including all admistrative requirements, was made for the registration of the order name and the release of the household name. As this was recently discussed by the College, the extraordinary request is being accepted. [Angels, Barony of the, 05/2003 LoAR, A-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Award name Order of the Gryphons Pride] Pride was documented from the OED using several definitions: "Magnificence, splendour; pomp, ostentation, display", "Exalted or proud position or estate", and "A group of lions forming a social unit". Therefore, the submitted order name would mean 'Order of the Gryphon's Splendour/Display', 'Order of the Gryphon's Exalted Position', or 'Order of the Gryphon's [group of lions]'. No evidence was presented and none was found that any of these meanings follow a period pattern of order or award names as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. The meaning 'Order of the Gryphon's [group of lions]' comes closest to period examples. However, while examples have been found of period order names that refer to groups of people (Knights, Militia, Preachers, et cetera), none have yet been found referring to groups of animals. Lacking evidence that Order of the Gryphons Pride follows a period pattern of order or award names, it is not registerable. [Artemisia, Kingdom of, 05/2003 LoAR, R-Artemisia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order name Award of the Bright Leaf] The registration of Bright Leaf Herald (registered in April 1985 to Atlantia) does not grandfather Bright Leaf for use in an order name. While we have evidence of heraldic titles being taken from order names, no evidence has yet been found of order names being derived from heraldic titles. Therefore, this name must be supported by documentation showing that Bright Leaf is plausible as an order name in period. To address this issue, Atlantia provided the following information from Kwellend-Njal:
However, as noted in another return in this LoAR (Artemisia, Kingdom of; Order of the Glorious Gryphon), we only have support for Glorious as an adjective describing Mary, the mother of Jesus, in an order name. Lacking evidence that a word meaning 'illustrious, glorious, splendid' would plausibly be used in an order name in period to describe a leaf or a piece of paper, Bright is not registerable in an order name. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 05/2003 LoAR, R-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order of the Hospitallers of Albion] Submitted as Hospitallers of Albion, this order name lacked a designator, as required by RfS III.2.b. We have added the designator allowed by Kingdom. [Drachenwald, Kingdom of, 05/2003 LoAR, A-Drachenwald] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order name Award of the Silver Osprey] No documentation was presented and none was found that Silver would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) lists a number of order names that use a color as an adjective. However, Gold/Golden is the only metal listed as an adjective. Therefore, while these examples support the construction [color] [charge], including Golden as a color, they do not support the construction [any general metal] [charge].
At this time, there are 43 order and award names registered that include Silver as an adjective. At least one order or award name including Silver as an adjective has been registered every year from 1981 to 2002 (inclusive) except for four years. Given this level of popularity, Silver is SCA-compatible for use in order and award names in any position where Golden is appropriate. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 05/2003 LoAR, A-Outlands] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order of the Defenders of the Citadel] This name does not conflict with the registered order names Order of the Defenders of Mons Tonitrus (registered in August 1992) and Order of the Defenders of the West (registered at some point). Citadel is not the name of a registered branch name. Therefore, Citadel is a substantive element in this submission and counts for difference. [Artemisia, Kingdom of, 03/2005, A-Artemisia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.05 | [Order of the Defenders of the Citadel] An issue was raised whether Defenders follows the pattern of group names used in historical order names. No evidence was found that Defenders would have been used in a period order name. However, Defender and Defenders have been used so often in awards and order names, including as generic designators, that this term has become part of SCA culture. Therefore, it is reasonable to declare use of Defender and Defenders in an order or award name to be SCA compatible. [Artemisia, Kingdom of, 03/2005, A-Artemisia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.04 | [Award name Award of the Sharks Tooth] Submitted as Order of the Shark's Tooth, we have removed the apostrophe in accordance with the ruling:
As noted by Kraken, Atlantian Kingdom Law (http://law.atlantia.sca.org/Law03-04.html) specifies that the Shark's Tooth is an award rather than an order. We have, therefore, corrected the designator in this submission to Award. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 04/2003 LoAR, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.04 | [Order name Ordo Arcus Magni] This order name was submitted with the intended meaning 'Order of the Great Bow'. Arcus means 'arch, bow, rainbow'. Therefore, the submitted name means 'Order of the Big/Great Arch/Bow/Rainbow'. Both a bow and a rainbow are heraldic charges and so are reasonable as a noun in an order name. However, no documentation was presented and none was found to support the construction Big/Great [heraldic charge] in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name is not registerable. [Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 04/2003 LoAR, R-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Order name Ordre de Mai] In this submission, Mai was documented as an English byname. While documentation was provided for order names formed from the given names of saints, no documentation was provided to support an order name formed from a period byname or surname. Lacking such evidence, such an order name is not registerable.
Happily, Mai is also a given name in period. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. May) date Johannes filius Maie to 1274, Elena filia May to 1301, and May de Hindley to 1379. Kwellend-Njal Kollskeggsson's article "Period Order Names" (KWHS Procedings 1999, pp. 46-57) shows some examples of orders named for saints where the word Saint is omitted from the order name. Given these examples, this order name is registerable based on the examples of order names formed from the given names of saints. [Havre de Glace, Barony of, 02/2003 LoAR, A-East] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Order name The Sigillum Coronae] This order name was submitted under the Grandfather Clause based on the order name The Sigillum Principissae, which was registered to Drachenwald in January 1993. However, 'crown' and 'princess' are not similar items. The word 'princess' is a title used by royalty. No evidence was provided and none was found that 'crown' was used as a title by royalty in period. Lacking such evidence, this order name is not registerable.
Metron Ariston provided information about parallels for the structure in the registered order name The Sigillum Principissae:
One of these forms would be a registerable parallel for the construction seen in the registered order name The Sigillum Principissae. [Drachenwald, Kingdom of, 02/2003 LoAR, R-Drachenwald] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Designator change Order of the Cherubim from House Cherubim] This submission is not simply a designator change. Household names and order names are different types of items and were formed in different manners in period. In this situation, the branch may submit a registration of an order name with a note that the equivalent household name be released upon registration of the order name.
As designators are transparent for conflict purposes, Order of the Cherubim and House Cherubim are identical and so may not both be registered, even to the same owner. The single exception to this policy is that a branch may register a heraldic title and an order name that are identical except for the designators. This exception is due to the period practice of deriving heraldic titles from the names of orders. One type of name (such as a household, order, or heraldic title) may not simply be switched to a different type of name by changing the designator. The one exception to this requirement is that heraldic titles may be formed from registered order names without redocumenting the order name. The reason for this exception is that there is sufficient examples of heraldic titles being drawn from order names in period to support such registrations. Additionally, no documentation was provided and none was found that Order of the Cherubim is a plausible order name in period. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) dates the order name Seraphim to 1280 in Sweden. Given this example, Order of the Cherubim is registerable, if House Cherubim is released. [Angels, Barony of the, 02/2003 LoAR, R-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Order name L'Ordre de la Tour d'Azure et d'Or] No documentation was presented and none was found that an order name would specifically mention more than one color for an item. Lacking such evidence, an order name meaning 'Order of the Blue and Gold Tower' is not registerable.
Additionally, no evidence has been found that heraldic tinctures (rather than common color terms such as bleu) were used in order names. Therefore, heraldic tinctures may not be used in order names. [Dun Or, Barony of, 02/2003 LoAR, R-Æthelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Order name l'Ordre de l'Antilope d'Or] Submitted as l'Ordre de l'Antilope Dorée, the return of the previously submitted order name, The Order of the Gilded Antelope, stated:
In the current submission, the LoI stated that l'Antilope Dorée "is a French phrase meaning 'The Golden Antelope'" and referenced two websites (http://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/ordhist.html and http://www.hyw.com/hywdocs/medieval.htm) citing the period orders Order of the Golden Fleece (1430) and Compagnie of the Black Swan (1350) to support the construction of this order name. Metron Ariston noted that:
Whereas Gold and Golden are colors, Gilded is not. The cited examples could be used to support an order name meaning 'Order of the Gold Antelope' or 'Order of the Golden Antelope'. However, lacking evidence that Gilded would have been used as a color in an order name, an order name meaning 'Order of the Gilded Antelope' is not registerable. As the barony allows all changes, we have changed this order name to l'Ordre de l'Antilope d'Or 'the Order of the Golden Antelope' in order to register this name. [Dun Or, Barony of, 02/2003 LoAR, A-�thelmearc] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.02 | [Order name Ordre du Meritum Martialis] This name is being returned for violation of RfS III.1.a, which requires linguistic consistency in a name phrase. In this case Ordre du is French and Meritum Martialis is Latin. As the submitters allow no changes, we were unable to change this name to a registerable form.
This name was intended to mean 'Order of Martial Merit'. Metron Ariston provided information regarding correctly constructed Latin and French forms of this order name: [Havre de Glace, Barony of, 02/2003 LoAR, R-East] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.01 | [Queen's Order of Courtesy of Drachenwald] Drachenwald has a letter of permission to conflict from the East Kingdom, which registered the order name Queen's Order of Courtesy in February 1982.
Branch references, such as of Drachenwald, are transparent for conflict purposes. Therefore, in normal circumstances, the order name Queen's Order of Courtesy of Drachenwald would conflict with the East Kingdom's Queen's Order of Courtesy, since no difference is given for the addition of of Drachenwald because it is a branch reference. Previous precedent has ruled that the addition of a branch reference, in conjuction with a letter of permission to conflict, is enough to clear conflict (Kingdom of Caid, The Order of the White Scarf of Caid, registered September 1997; Barony of Aneala, Order of the Golden Swan of Aneala, registered July 1999). [Drachenwald, Kingdom of, 01/2003 LoAR, A-Drachenwald] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.01 | [Award name Award of the King's Archer of Ansteorra] This award name is too generic to register. As explained in the Cover Letter for the December 2002 LoAR:
Just as it is reasonable for any kingdom to have a King's Champion, so it is also reasonable that any kingdom may have a King's Archer. Therefore, King's Archer is too generic to register to any one group, and so it falls into the category of a generic designator. A similar situation was addressed in the precedent:
Similarly, Ansteorra may have a King's Archer, and may use King's Archer or King's Archer of Ansteorra to identify a badge submitted for the King's Archer, but the name King's Archer cannot be protected. The purpose behind this policy is that common designations which would reasonably be used by more than one group, such as a position of King's Archer, may not be restricted for use by a single group. [Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 01/2003 LoAR, R-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2003.01 | [Award of the Rising Star of Ansteorra] This submission is an appeal of the return of Award of the Rising Star in September 2001, which stated:
Ansteorra has pointed out that Circle of the Ascending Star was registered to the Kingdom of Ansteorra in April 1981 and that the construction used in Award of the Rising Star of Ansteorra is, therefore, grandfathered to them. This submission raised considerable discussion regarding how the Grandfather Clause applies to order names. This issue is most often raised in regards to adjectives used in order names. Some recent examples include:
While use of an adjective, such as Argent or Dragon's, that does not change from order name to order name is the most common application of the Grandfather Clause in order names, we have also grandfathered specific construction types. Some examples include:
In the first example, the construction Order of the [type of stone] Chalice is grandfathered to Gleann Abhann. In the second example, Order of the [type of gemstone] is grandfathered to Atlantia. Award of the Rising Star of Ansteorra parallels Circle of the Ascending Star in a manner similar to these examples. Given these previous registrations of grandfathering order name constructions within a narrow construction type, this order name is registerable to Ansteorra. Note: Ansteorra has a letter of permission to conflict from the owner of the household name House Rising Star. The addition of a group reference, such as of Ansteorra, is normally transparent for conflict purposes. However, previous precedent (including The Order of the White Scarf of Caid (Caid, Kingdom of; Acceptances, Caid; April 1997) and Order of the Golden Swan of Aneala (Aneala, Barony of; Acceptances, Lochac; July 1999) has ruled that a group reference is enough difference to clear the conflict when used in conjunction with a letter of permission to conflict. [Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 01/03, A-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order of the Marble Chalice] No documentation was presented and none was found that Order of the Marble Chalice follows a pattern used for period order names. However, Gleann Abhann has registered Order of the Onyx Chalice (registered in September 1998) and Order of the Garnet Chalice (registered in September 1998). Since both marble and onyx are types of stone, Order of the Marble Chalice follows the same construction pattern as Order of the Onyx Chalice and so is registerable via the Grandfather Clause. [Gleann Abhann, Principality of, 12/2002, A-Meridies] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order name La Ordern del Sirviente del Sol] No documentation was presented and none was found that La Ordern del Sirviente del Sol, meaning 'The Order of the Servant of the Sun', follows a pattern of order names used in period as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. Lacking evidence that La Ordern del Sirviente del Sol follows a construction used for order names in period, it is not registerable.
Additionally, the College indicated that the Spanish word for Order is Orden, not Ordern. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 12/2002, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order name La Ordern de la Luz de las Estrellas] No documentation was presented and none was found that La Ordern de la Luz de las Estrellas, 'The Order of the Light of the Stars', follows a pattern of order names used in period as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. Lacking evidence that La Ordern de la Luz de las Estrellas follows a construction used for order names in period, it is not registerable.
The LoI noted the order name Order of the Light of Atenveldt registered in April of 1981 to the Kingdom of Atenveldt. Since items are only grandfathered in their originally registered form, the English Order of the Light of Atenveldt cannot be used via the Grandfather Clause to support the submitted Spanish La Ordern de la Luz de las Estrellas. Additionally, Order of the Light of Atenveldt uses the construction Order of the Light of [branch name] which does not parallel an order name meaning 'The Order of the Light of the Stars'. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 12/2002, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order name Le Ordre de le Artisan de Soleil.] No documentation was presented and none was found that Le Ordre de le Artisan de Soleil follows a pattern of order names used in period as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. Lacking evidence that Le Ordre de le Artisan de Soleil follows a construction used for order names in period, it is not registerable.
This order name was submitted as meaning 'The Order of the Artisan of the Sun' in French. In fact, the phrase de Soleil is grammaticaly incorrect. It means 'of Sun', not 'of the Sun'. The phrase meaning 'of the Sun' is du Soleil, not de Soleil. The Kingdom of Atenveldt registered the Order of the Fleur de Soleil in September 1984. In comparing that order name to the currently submitted name, Artisan is not like Fleur. An artisan and a flower are dramatically different entities. Therefore, the current submission is not registerable under the Grandfather Clause. The LoI also mentioned the Principality of the Sun's order name Order of the Esprit de Soleil (registered in January 1984). As this name was registered to the Principality of the Sun, not the Kingdom of Atenveldt, it is the Principality of the Sun, not the Kingdom of Atenveldt, that has this construction grandfathered to them. Moreover, "artisan" and "spirit" are also dramatically different entities. Therefore, the registered Order of the Esprit de Soleil could not be used to support an order name Le Ordre de le Artisan de Soleil via the Grandfather Clause. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 12/2002, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order of the Builders of Atenveldt] There are two issues with this submission. The first is whether or not it follows a pattern of order names used in period as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. The second is whether or not the name is generic, and so may not be registered to a single group. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) dates some order names that include words describing groups of people, including Le Cordon Bleu to 1198 in France. Argonauts of St. Nicholas (1382, Naples), Brothers Hospitaller of Burgos (1212, Spain), Fools (1380, France), Hospitallers for Germany (1382, Germany), Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem (1000's), Nobles of Catalonia (1481, Spain), and Nobles of Tyrol (1361, Austria). Given these examples, coupled with the fact that the LoI dated builder to the 1300s as an English word, Order of the Builders of Atenveldt follows the documented pattern of order names formed as [group of people involved in an activity or occupation] of [placename]. The second issue is whether or not this order name is too generic to be registered. A discussion of generic identifiers is included in the Cover Letter for this LoAR. A reference to a branch name does not affect whether a name is generic or not:
So, the question is whether Builders is generic. Applying the basic description of what makes an identifier generic (see the Cover Letter for details), we must ask whether multiple groups would reasonably have a group of people, such as a guild or household, that would use the term Builders. Branches routinely have groups of people who work at construction projects such as building structures for branch encampments at the major wars. It is reasonable that these groups of people would function as a guild or household belonging to the branch (as a cooks' guild would) and that they would be referred to by the period term builders. Therefore, Order of the Builders of Atenveldt is generic and may not be registered to a single group. As with any generic identifier, Atenveldt may use have a group known as Builders of Atenveldt, if they wish, and may use Builders of Atenveldt as an identifier for a badge. Please see the Cover Letter for a discussion of generic identifiers. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 12/2002, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.12 | [Order name Order of the Blood of Fenris] No documentation was presented and none was found that Order of the Blood of Fenris follows a pattern of order names used in period as required by RfS III.2.b.ii. The only period order mentioned was the Order of the Golden Fleece. This example does not support an order name Order of the Blood of [mythical creature]. Orle found a reference to an order name dated to 1608 that includes the word Blood:
As Order of the Precious Blood is a reference to Jesus, it is not support for use of Blood of [mythical creature] in an order name. Lacking evidence that Order of the Blood of Fenris follows a construction used for order names in period, it is not registerable. [Atenveldt, Kingdom of, 12/2002, R-Atenveldt] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order name Order of the Starfish] This order name is being returned for non-period style. RfS III.2.b.ii, Names of Orders and Awards, states:
This order name does not follow the pattern of basing an order name on a heraldic charge. To follow that pattern, the charge in question must either be (1) documented as a period heraldic charge or (2) must have been ruled to be registerable as a charge within the S.C.A. In the case of a starfish, precedent specifically states that it is not a registerable charge:
RfS III.2.a.ii says that some order names were "similar to sign names". In those cases, both sign names and order names are formed using names of heraldic charges. Since there is evidence that a starfish was not a period heraldic charge, it is highly unlikely that it would be used in a period sign name. Lacking evidence that it is plausible as an element in a period sign name, it is not registerable in a sign name construction. [Aquaterra, Barony of, 09/2002 LoAR, R-An Tir] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order name Order of the Ulftönn of Starkhafn ] Listed on the LoI as Order of the Tönn frá Ùlfr of Starkhafn, this name was submitted as Tönn frá Ùlfur and changed at Kingdom to match available documentation. The submitting group requested authenticity for "Icelandic" culture.
Argent Snail provided grammar correction information for this item:
We have corrected the grammar in the main element in this order name to Ulftönn according to Argent Snail's recommendation. [Starkhafn, Barony of, 09/2002 LoAR, A-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order of the Fi�ri of Starkhafn] Submitted as Order of the Fjaer of Starkhafn, the name was changed to the current form at Kingdom as no documentation was found for Fjaer. The word fi�ri was documented as meaning 'feathers, plumage', which gives this word a plural meaning. As such, this order name falls afoul of the precedent:
More recent information has shown examples of plural nouns that refer to groups of people such as Soldiers, Nobles, etc. A list of such order names may be found in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/). However, no evidence has been found that plural nouns referring to items (such as feathers) rather than groups of people were used in order names. Lacking an appropriately constructed singular form of fi�ri, this name is not registerable. [Starkhafn, Barony of, 09/02, R-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order name Order of the Silver Muse] No documentation was provided for either the elements of this order name or for the construction of this order name. RfS III.2.b.ii, Names of Orders and Awards, states:
RfS III.2.a.ii says that some order names were "similar to sign names". In those cases, both sign names and order names are formed using names of heraldic charges. To follow the pattern of an order name based on a heraldic charge, the charge in question must either be (1) documented as a period heraldic charge, or (2) must have been ruled to be registerable as a charge within the S.C.A. No evidence was presented of a muse as a period heraldic charge and there has not yet been one registered as a heraldic charge within the S.C.A. Therefore, muse is not available for use in an order name whose name references a heraldic charge. Lacking evidence that the elements of this order name are period and that the construction of this order name follows period naming patterns for orders and awards, this name is not registerable. [Mists, Principality of the, 09/2002 LoAR, R-West] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order name The Order of the Archers of Agincourt] This order name is being returned for presumption. al-Jamal explains:
Further, recent precedent states:
As Agincourt has its own entry in the online edition of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/), it is protected. Therefore, just as Order of the Companions of Thermopylae was found to be presumptuous in 1988, the current submission falls afoul of the same construction issues (since it unmistakably implies identity with a protected location) and so it is also presumptuous. [Citadel of the Southern Pass, Barony of, 09/2002 LoAR, R-Outlands] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order name Ordo Saltatoris Nebularum] No documentation was provided for either the elements of this order name or for the construction of this order name. RfS III.2.b.ii, Names of Orders and Awards, states:
Lacking evidence that the elements of this order name are period and that the construction of this order name follows period naming patterns for orders and awards, this name is not registerable. [Mists, Principality of the, 09/2002 LoAR, R-West] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.09 | [Order of the Fr{oe}�ima�r of Starkhafn] Fr{oe}�i-ma�r was documented as meaning 'learned man, scholar, historian' from a dictionary of Old Icelandic. No documentation was presented that an order name meaning 'Order of the Learned Man/Scholar/Historian' is a plausible period order name. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/) lists several order names that include an element that refers to a group of people, including Argonauts of St. Nicholas (1382), Nobles of Catalonia (1481), and Poor Soldiers of Christ (1119). Given that research into the forms that order names took in period is ongoing, combined with these examples, it would be reasonable to give the submitter the benefit of the doubt for an order name meaning 'Order of the Learned Men/Scholars/Historians'. However, we do not know the plural form of Fr{oe}�ima�r. Lacking the ability to make Fr{oe}�ima�r plural, or evidence that an order name would use a singular form instead of referring to an entire group of people, we are unable to register this name. [Starkhafn, Barony of, 09/02, R-Caid] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.03 | [Household name Company of Saint Martha] Listed on the LoI as an order name submission for the Order of Saint Martha, the submission form listed the submitted name as Company of Saint Martha. Under submission type, "Other" was checked on the form and a note was written in below that said "for cooks' guild". We have returned the submission type and designator to the submitted form. [Lochmere, Barony of, 03/2002, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2002.03 | [Order of the Vine Staff of Ansteorra.] No documentation was presented and none was found that Vine Staff is a period term. Metron Ariston provided a summary regarding the object referred to in this submission:
As an item known in period, it could, theoretically, be used as a heraldic charge. Therefore, an order name based on a period term for this item would be registerable. [Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 03/2002, R-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Conch] The documentation submitted for this order name was the previous registration of Conch Herald (registered July 1982). However, while we have evidence of heraldic titles being taken from order names, no evidence was presented of order names being derived from heraldic titles. Since the Order of the Shell is dated to 1290 in Kwelland-Njal Kollskeggsson's article "Period Order Names" in the 2001 KWHS proceedings, this order name is registerable. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Ibis] The documentation submitted for this order name was the previous registration of Ibis Herald (registered August 1984). However, while we have evidence of heraldic titles being taken from order names, no evidence was presented of order names being derived from heraldic titles. Since Kwelland-Njal Kollskeggsson's article "Period Order Names" in the 2001 KWHS proceedings, lists order names using swan, dove, and eagle, this order name is registerable. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Manatee] The manatee is a New World animal that was in an area of the New World known by Western Europeans in period (Florida). New World flora and fauna have been ruled a weirdness when used as a heraldic charge:
[An aardvark] For purposes of registration, coastal sub-Saharan flora and fauna are considered the same as New World flora and fauna: they are a discouraged weirdness, but registerable. [Jamie Snawberd of Ross, 08/99, A-Caid]As we have evidence of order names based on heraldic charges, and a manatee is a registerable charge, this order name is registerable. It is reasonable to have order names based on charges parallel the registerability of those charges. Therefore, this order name has only a weirdness for using a New World animal. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Narwhal] The documentation submitted for this order name was the previous registration of Narwhal Herald (registered July 2000). However, while we have evidence of heraldic titles being taken from order names, no evidence was presented of order names being derived from heraldic titles. As a narwhal is an animal that could have been used as a heraldic charge, and we have evidence of order names based on heraldic charges, this order name is registerable. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Opal] No evidence was presented and none was found of period order names based on gemstones. As Atlantia has registered the Order of the Pearl, this construction is grandfathered to them. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, A-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.12 | [Order of the Nereid] The documentation submitted for this order name was the previous registration of Nereid Herald (registered July 1981). However, while we have evidence of heraldic titles being taken from order names, no evidence was presented of order names being derived from heraldic titles. Lacking evidence of order names being formed from the names of gods or demigods, this order name is not registerable. [Atlantia, Kingdom of, 12/01, R-Atlantia] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.10 | [Legio Ursi] There was some discussion regarding the use of Legion as an order designator versus as a household designator. The following items containing Legion have been registered:
Legion of the Black Fist is registered to the East (July 1974), but there is no indication in the O & A if it was registered as an order name or a household name. As the East Kingdom OP does not list it as an order, it is almost certainly a household name.Given that at least two registrations of Legion are in order names, this order name is registerable. [Meridies, Kingdom of, 10/01, A-Meridies] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.09 | [Award of the Rising Star] This name is being returned for lack of documentation of the construction of the order name. No documentation was provided, and the College found none, that an abstract descriptive such as Rising was used to modify a noun such as Star in period order names. Barring such documentation, this name must be returned.
Note: had such documentation been found, this name would have registerable as Award of the Rising Star of Ansteorra, since Ansteorra has a letter of permission to conflict from the owner of the household name House Rising Star, and group references (which are normally transparent for conflict purposes) can clear a conflict in conjunction with a letter of permission to conflict. [Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 09/01, R-Ansteorra] |
| François la Flamme | 2001.09 | [Ordo Stellae Argenteae] Submitted as Ordo Stellae Argentae, argenteae is the adjectival form of the noun argentum. We have made this correction. [Mons Tonitrus, Barony of, 09/01, A-Atenveldt] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2001.07 | [Order of the Tower's Keystone] No evidence was provided for the construction Order of the X's Y. Since the College could not provide such evidence either, we have to return this. [Lonely Tower, Barony of the, 07/01, R-Calontir] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2001.06 | [Order of the Silver Stars of Mons Tonitrus] By the precedent set in the July 1997 LoAR, plural nouns are not allowed in order names. Also, according to RfS V.2.a, names of SCA branches are not descriptive elements; they are therefore invisible when determining whether a conflict exists. This name therefore conflicts with the US military decoration of Silver Star. While we do not intend to protect every military decoration, this is one of the few that is well enough known and prestigious enough to warrant protection. [Mons Tonitrus, Barony of, 11/00, R-Atenveldt] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2001.03 | [Order of the Gilded Antelope] No documentation was submitted for the construction of this order name � it is not sufficient to show that the individual words were used in period, one must demonstrate that the overall name is formed in a period manner as well. As the College did not provide such evidence either we have to return this. [Dun Or Barony of, 03/01, R-Caid] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.10 | [The Order of the Wellspring] This does not follow known period examples of order names. The argument made on the LoI was that a wellspring was a possible heraldic charge. While this argument has some merit in that some order names come from items that could be heraldic charges, it also fails in that a wellspring is not a heraldic charge. It is a special type of stream, not easily depicted as a distinct entity different from a regular stream. [One Thousand Eyes, Barony of, 10/00, R-Artemisia] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.10 | [The Order of Artist] This does not follow known period examples of order names. While orders were named after saints, as the submitters note, the order name is consistently formed from the saint's given name. We were unable to find any period order names that were formed from a byname or occupation. [One Thousand Eyes, Barony of, 10/00, R-Artemisia] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.09 | [Award of the Little Griffin] No evidence was provided that this name would conform to period patterns of order names. As the College could not find such evidence either, we have to return this. [Avacal, Principality of, 09/00, R-An Tir] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.08 | [Order of the Argent Slipper] Meridies already has several order names of the type Argent X, so this particular use is grandfathered to the Kingdom. [Meridies, Kingdom of, 08/00, A-Meridies] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.07 | [Order of the Serpent's Fang] While fang was indeed used in period, it seems to have been applied only to canine animals. No new evidence was provided that a serpent's fang follows period patterns for order names � or even that it would have been a meaningful concept in period. We therefore have to deny the appeal. [Calafia, Barony of, 07/00, R-Caid] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.06 | [Order of the Defender of Darkwater] This conflicts with the already registered names Order of the Defenders of Mons Tonitrus and Order of the Defenders of the West. Also, while such order names have been registered in the past it is not clear that this construction follows real-world examples. [Darkwater, Barony of, 06/00, R-Trimaris] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.04 | [L'Ordre de l'Hèrme d'Or] An OED citation for the English herm is not sufficient to document the French hèrme. Even if the word were documented as a period French word, we would have the problem that hèrme seems too specific to be used in an order name � Order of the Statue would be fine but Order of the Statue of Hermes much less so. [Blatha an Oir, Barony of, 04/00, R-An Tir] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.03 | [Companionate of the Meridian Queen's Rapier Champion] The name is too generic to register. Note that Meridies can have a Queen's Rapier Champion, and can even have a companionate of former champions, but the name Queen's Rapier Champion cannot be protected. [Meridies, Kingdom of, 03/00, R-Meridies] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.03 | Champion of Arts and Sciences is a generic descriptor and need not be registered. [Avacal, Principality of, 03/00, A-An Tir] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.03 | [Order of the Radiance of Starkhafn] No evidence was given, nor could any be found, showing that the word Radiance existed before 1600. Moreover, it is too abstract to be a reasonable order name. The documentation cited by the submitter does not date the Order of Silence to period, and even then it is difficult to extrapolate from a single example. [Starkhafn, Barony of, 03/00, R-Caid] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.02 | [Award of the Sapphire] This name does not conflict with the personal name Sapphyra (registered August 1971), because personal names do not conflict with order names. [Middle Kingdom, 02/00, A-Middle] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.01 | [Order of the Gaudium Alces] First, the grammar is incorrect � the name should be Gaudium Alcis. More importantly no evidence was given, nor could any be found, to indicate that "Joy of the Moose" matched any known naming pattern for order names.[Arn Hold, Barony of, 01/00, R-Artemisia] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.01 | [Order of the Griffin's Flame] A flame is not an attribute associated with a griffin, therefore we need to see evidence that Griffin's Flame is a reasonable name for an order. [Avacal, Principality of, 01/00, R-An Tir] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 2000.01 | Submitted as the Order of the Gryphon's Eye, the apostrophe was not used until after period. [Artemisia, Kingdom of, 01/00, A-Artemisia] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.12 | [Award of the Indigo Mountain] Indigo was not used as an adjective in period, nor was it used as a color until 1622. [Hidden Mountain, Barony of,12/99, R-Atlantia] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.11 | [Defender of Darkwater] This name has no designator, such as Order or Award. It needs a designator to be registerable, under RfS III.2.b. Note that it is appropriate to name someone the Defender of Darkwater without registering the name; it is a reasonable generic description similar to Champion. [Darkwater, Barony of, 11/99, R-Trimaris] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.11 | [Order of the Serpent's Fang] No evidence was presented that fang meant "tooth" in period. Barring conflict, the Order of the Serpents Tooth would be acceptable. [Calafia, Barony of, 11/99, R-Caid] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.10 | [Order of the Mountain Hart] No evidence was given that "mountain" is a reasonable adjective to apply to a hart. While there are no doubt harts in the mountains, we know of no particular mountain variety. [Highland Foorde, Barony of, 10/99, R-Atlanita] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.10 | [Order of the Mountain Hawk] No evidence was given that "mountain" is a reasonable adjective to apply to a hawk. [Highland Foorde, Barony of, 10/99, R-Atlanita] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.10 | [Order of the Mountain Lark] No evidence was given that "mountain" is a reasonable adjective to apply to a lark. [Highland Foorde, Barony of, 10/99, R-Atlanita] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.10 | [Order of the Caltrop] The name conflicts with Caltrop Pursuivant, which is registered to the Kingdom of Calontir. Æthelmearc has a letter to conflict from the King and Queen of Calontir. However, current practice allows someone owning Order of the X to use X Pursuivant and vice versa. Therefore two such items are effectively identical. Since we cannot register two identical items even with permission, the order name must be returned. [Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 10/99, R-Æthelmearc] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.10 | [Order of Manus] The name "of hand" does not make any sense and does not follow any pattern for order names. Either Order of the Hand or Ordo Manus would be acceptable, barring conflicts. [Ealdormere, Kingdom of, 10/99, R-Ealdormere] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.08 | [Order of the Dragon's Pheon] This name is being returned because it does not follow period style of order names, nor does it follow the pattern of previous order names of the barony. ... Dragon's is not a reasonable adjective to modify a pheon. [Dragonsspine, Barony of, 08/99, R-Outlands] |
| Elsbeth Anne Roth | 1999.07 | Submitted as Order of the Golden Swans of Aneala, there is no evidence of plural nouns used in order names in period, with the exception of the word "knights." [Aneala, Barony of, 07/99, A-Lochac] |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.06 | [Aarnimetsä, Barony of. Order name for Aarnimetsän akatemia] Finally, we feel that [Academy of {Group Name}] is probably too generic to register. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1999, p. 8) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.06 | [Aarnimetsä, Barony of. Order name for Aarnimetsän akatemia] This is being returned for not following our patterns for order name. The name means, in Finnish, Academy of Aarnimetsä, Aarnimetsä being the name of the barony. However as it says in RfS 2.b.ii "Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies." Academy of Aarnimetsä does not follow any of the exemplars. Furthermore, they would not take changes, and all order and awards must contain a designator. RfS 2.b states "Branch names, names of orders and awards, heraldic titles, and household names must consist of a designator that identifies the type of entity and at least one descriptive element. Common designators are Shire, Barony, Guild, House, Order of the, and Herald. ". (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1999, p. 8) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.06 | [Aarnimetsä, Barony of. Order name for Aarnimetsän kaarti] Finally, we feel that [Guard of {Group Name}] is probably too generic to register. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1999, p. 8) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.06 | [Aarnimetsä, Barony of. Order name for Aarnimetsän kaarti] This is being returned for not following our patterns for order name. The name means, in Finnish, Guard of Aarnimetsä, Aarnimetsä being the name of the barony. However as it says in RfS 2.b.ii "Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies." Academy of Aarnimetsä does not follow any of the exemplars. Furthermore, they would not take changes, and all order and awards must contain a designator. RfS 2.b states "Branch names, names of orders and awards, heraldic titles, and household names must consist of a designator that identifies the type of entity and at least one descriptive element. Common designators are Shire, Barony, Guild, House, Order of the, and Herald. ". (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1999, p. 8) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.05 | [Starkhafn, Barony of. Order name for The Order of the Sparkes of Starkhafn] Many period order names were formed from heraldic charges. Estencely is also known as a semy of sparks, so it is acceptable as an order name. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR May 1999, p. 5) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.02 | [al-Barran, Barony of. Order name for Order of the Watch and Ward] This is being returned for lack of documentation for the Order name. Watch and Ward is a conceptual term, denoting a particular type of feudal service. It cannot be considered in any way as a synonym for a sentinel. Naming patterns for medieval orders used physical objects, not abstractions. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1999, p. 15) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1999.02 | [Order of the Peacock Key] This is being returned for lack of documentation. No documentation was provided and none could be found for period order names in the form of <animal name> <implement>. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1999, p. 10) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.09 | [Ramshaven, Barony of. Order name for The Order of the Favor of Ramshaven.] This violates RfS 2.b.ii Names of Orders and Awards.
Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards. These are often the names of saints; others are similar to sign names (see RfS III.2.a.iii). Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies. Barring documentation that The Order of the Favor of Ramshaven follows such a pattern, it must be returned. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR September 1998) |
Jaelle of Armida |
1998.06 | [Edward Drake von Nordstrom. Household Name for Flammenhaus] The name is being returned for conflict with the Order of the Flames of Starkhafn. The group designator does not count for difference, nor does haus and Order. Therefore the only difference between them that counts is the difference between Flammen and Flames. There is a similar problem between the household name and Flame Pursuivant of Caid and the Barony of the Flame. Interestingly enough, this is a period German formation as according to Bahlow's Deutsches Namen-Lexicon in 1500, there was a haus name of zur Flamme, which translates as at (the sign of) the flame. Brechenmacher's Etymologisches Wörterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen has, dated to 1469, Flammenhof, which would be equivalent to court of the flame. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR, June 1998) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.06 | [Sentinels' Keep, Barony of. Order name for Order of the Mountain Pearl] This is being returned for non-period style. Period order names are often the names of saints; others are similar to sign names (see RfS III.2.a.iii). Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies. To the best of our knowledge there is no such as a mountain pearl, and pearls are certainly not found in mountains. Therefore, barring documentation, we are forced to return this. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR, June 1998) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.06 | [Sentinels' Keep, Barony of. Order name for Order of the Silver Crane] Submitted as Order of the Argent Crane, there is no evidence that English used argent as an adjective. Therefore, we have changed it to silver as they allow. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1998, p. 2) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.06 | [Sentinels' Keep, Barony of. Order name for Order of Vigilance] This is being returned for non-period style. Period order names are often the names of saints; others are similar to sign names (see RfS III.2.a.iii). Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies. Order of Vigilance does not fit any of the exemplars we know of for period order names. Therefore, barring documentation we are forced to return this. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR, June 1998) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.03 | [Axemoor, Barony of. Order name for Order of the Citizen of Axemoor] This name does not follow any known pattern of period order names. While there is period precedent for citizens and non-citizens being of different social orders, this is not the sense of "order" which applies to the SCA. We use the word in the sense of chivalric orders. Absent any examples of such orders with names analogous to this, it must be returned.
We also have some concern about this use of "citizen" as a bestowed honor. There is an implication that the members of this order are enfranchised in baronial matters, and those members of the populace not members of this order therefore being disenfranchised. While we don't believe that this is the barony's intent, it would do well to further consider this. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR March 1998, p. 21) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.02 | [Axemoor, Barony of. Order name and badge for Company of Hussars of Axemoor] Submitted as an order name for Hussars of Axemoor, it lacked a designator. We have added the designator acceptable to the Baron in order to avoid returning the order name. (Barony of Axemoor, 2/98 p. 5) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.02 | [Middle, Kingdom of. Order name for Order of the Greenwood Company] Note: Order of the Red Company is registered to the Middle Kingdom, and therefore this usage is grandfathered to them. Normally we would not register a name with two designators. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1998, p. 8) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.01 | [Altavia, Barony of. Name for The Order of the Argent Pearl] Since September 1994 we have been returned the use of argent as an adjective referring to color. It was last returned in September 1997. Barring period evidence of its use in English as an adjective we must return this as well. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR January 1998, p. 18) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1998.01 | [Morgaine FitzStephen. Name for Chateau Corbeau.] The name conflicts with the Barony of Mountain Freehold's "The Order of the Corbie". Corbie and Corbeau sound too much alike. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR January 1998, p. 18) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.10 | [returning the Companionate of the Pilgrims of Compostela] Taking this at face value, "Companionate" is the designator and "Pilgrims of Compostela" is the substantive portion of the name. This pattern follows no know period exemplars. If we regard both "Companionate" and "Pilgrims" to be designators then there is the problem of using two designators (a possibility which the RfS don't seem to take into account, and which at the least requires some justification). (Meridies, Kingdom of, 10/97 p. 12) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.10 | [returning the Companionate of the Pilgrims of Compostela] This would also raise a possible concern about conflict with the famous Spanish pilgrimage site. We are unwilling to register this name because of these issues. The source of the difficulty the kingdom is having with this name, and its predecessor submission, is that it is attempting to register some form of the famous period pilgrimage site as a kingdom order. Even should they succeed in circumventing the conflict and style pitfalls inherent in this attempt, such a registration would violate the spirit of the SCA's approach to recreation in the Current Middle Ages. The SCA creates its own places, persons, and orders rather than reenacting those from period. It would also be inappropriate for any party, even a kingdom, to appropriate such an important period phenomenon as the shrine of Santiago de Compostella for its own exclusive use. (Meridies, Kingdom of, 10/97 p. 12) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.10 | [returning the Order of the Silver Fleece] [Meridies, Kingdom of]The name is [technically] clear of the Order of the Golden Fleece... However, under RfS VI.4., "Some names not otherwise forbidden by these rules are nevertheless too evocative of widely known and revered protected items to be registered..." While the Silver Fleece and the Golden Fleece are not in conflict, we believe it is too evocative of the Golden Fleece to be registered, especially since the Golden Fleece was the premier Order of Chivalry from its founding to at least 1918, and is still a recognized order of Chivalry with two branches, the Spanish branch over which His Catholic Majesty Juan Carlos presides, and the Austrian branch, of which His Imperial Highness Archduke Otto von Hapsburg is titular head. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR October 1997, p. 13) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.09 | [Order of the Crystal] This is registerable since orders in period were frequently named after a physical object that was a symbol of the order, such as The Order of the Garter, The Order of the Swan, The Order of the Thistle, etc., and a crystal is a physical object. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR September 1997, p. 2) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.07 | [Order of the Desert Flower of the Outlands] [Outlands, Kingdom of] The name is being returned for non-period style. While the LoI claimed that the order name follows the period example of the Order of the Golden Fleece, it does not. The mundane order name is a straightforward Classical allusion; the present submission, even without the locative, is not. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 22) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.07 | [returning the Order of the Anvil and the Rose] [Blackstone Mountain, Barony of] The name is being returned for conflict with the Order of the Rose (SCA peerage order). RfS VI.4 Other Presumptuous Names states:
Some names not otherwise forbidden by these rules are nevertheless too evocative of widely known and revered protected items to be registered. Such items include the peerage orders of the Society and such well-known items outside the Society as the Order of the Garter. The House of the Rose and Laurel does not conflict with the Order of the Rose or the Order of the Laurel, but it is too evocative of both to be registered. Similarly, the Award of the Blue Garter is too evocative of the Order of the Garter, whose badge is a blue garter. The rules specifically say the Order of the Rose and the Laurel is too evocative of both names to be registered. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 20) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.07 | While the LoI is correct that some period order names followed the patter of Order of the [mythical object], a sea-phoenix is not a mythical object or beast, and the combination is too unlikely to be registerable. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR July 1997, p. 19) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.06 | [returning Equitatus Ansteorrae] [Ansteorra, Kingdom of] Unfortunately, in Latin, Equitatus is not merely an equestrian order, but the equestrian order. This is frequently translated into English simply as "the knights". Since this guild is not restricted to members of the chivalry only, it must be returned for presumption. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1997, p. 10) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.04 | Crescent has provided copies of letter of permission to conflict from all signers of the White Scarf treaty. While normally adding the name of an SCA group is not sufficient to clear conflict, this is sufficiently different in conjunction with a letter of permission. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR April 1997, p. 3) |
|
Jaelle of Armida |
1997.02 | [Defenders of Andelcrag] RfS V.2 deals with conflict of non-personal names. Clause V.2.a clearly says that branch names are not descriptive elements. The remaining clauses clearly imply that names must differ in their descriptive elements in order not to conflict. This therefore conflicts with Defenders of Mons Tonitrus: in terms of descriptive elements, they are identical. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1997, p. 23) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1997.02 | This is in conflict with the Order of the Heart of Artemisia since the only difference is the addition of a group name, which the rules specifically excludes as a differencing descriptive element. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1997, p. 20) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.11 | [returning The Order of the Stellar Constabulary of Northshield and The Order of the Griffin Sheriffs of Northshield] This name does not follow any period exemplars of order names, and is being returned for violating RfS III.2.b.ii. Names of Orders and Awards. Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards. These are often the names of saints; others are similar to sign names (see RfS III.2.a.iii). Some examples are: the Order of Saint Michael, the Order of Saint Maurice and Saint Lazarus, the Brethren of the Sword, the Order of the Garter, La Toison d'Or (the Order of the Golden Fleece), the Order of the Golden Rose, the Order of the Star, the Order of the Swan, La Orden de la Jara (the Knights of the Tankard), the Order of Lilies. (Northshield, Principality of, 11/96 p. 16) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.11 | [returning the Order of the Valiant Swans of Aneala] This is being returned for non-period style. The name has two problems. First, the use of swans versus swan; no one could come up with a period order-name in the plural. Second, the addition of a place name to the order name, which again no could some up with a period example. If one or both of these problems were corrected, the name should be registerable. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR November 1996, p. 16) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.11 | No one has been able to provide any evidence that period order names ever used a location in the name. Therefore, from now on, adding the name of a place to an order name will be considered one weirdness. (Jaelle of Armida, CL November 18, 1996, with the November 1996 LoAR, p. 2) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.10 | [returning the order name Keeper of the Flame of Calontir] No one in the College could find a period exemplar for a name of this type. (Calontir, Kingdom of, 10/96 p. 10) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.08 | [registering the order name Katkenneen kynän ritarikunta] A question was raised about the order name, as to whether it might be presumptuous since the root is ritari which means knight. However, Ritarikunta is no more nor less than the Finnish word for an order of this type; that it is translated to English as order of knighthood is because there is no single word 'order' in Finnish. It is true that the word is a compound noun consisting of ritari 'knight' and kunta 'a collective; municipality'. Similarly, tiedekunta 'faculty' consists of tiede 'science' and kunta, and lautakunta 'council' of lauta 'plank' and kunta. It is one of the characteristics of the Finnish language that the meaning of a compound noun is not necessarily, or even generally, simply the sum of the meanings of its parts. Based on this, we find the order name acceptable for SCA usage. (Aarnimetsä, Barony of, 8/96 p. 2) |
| Jaelle of Armida | 1996.07 | [returning Orden de la Estrella de Vida] The order name means "Order of the Star of Life", which does not fit any known period exemplars of order names. (Altavia, Barony of, 7/96 p. 20) |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) | 1996.03 | In standard English the word companionate seems to exist only as an adjective (with several meanings). However, this use of the term in the sense of 'a group of companions' is grandfathered to the Kingdom of Meridies by virtue of the order names Companionate of Bards, registered 4/80, and Order of the Companionate of the Bard, registered 8/87. (Talan Gwynek, LoAR March 1996, p. 4) |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) | 1995.04 | [returning the order name Plume of the Ange Rouge] [An Crosaire, Barony of] In addition to lacking a designator, the "Feather of the Red Angel" seems to be a step too far from even the exemplars presented by Archive for knightly orders: e.g., Order of the Golden Angel. See RfS III.2.b.ii. (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR April 1995, p. 10) |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) | 1995.02 | [returning Order of the Dreamer's Cup] [Caerthe, Barony of] The order name does not appear to follow any period exemplars that any of the commenters could find. [It was suggested that the "Order of the Cup" would be far more appropriate.] (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR February 1995, p. 14) |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 1st year) | 1994.05 | [Registering Golden Dolphin Herald.] To borrow from Baron Bruce's words in the March 1993 LoAR and apply them to this case, the title is taken from the Order of the Golden Dolphin, already registered to Atlantia. It is an ancient and honorable tradition to name heraldic officers after orders: Garter and Toison d'Or (Golden Fleece) are well-known medieval examples, while the classic Society example is (ahem) Laurel. [5/94, p.3] |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 1st year) | 1994.05 | [Registering Golden Dolphin Herald.] To borrow from Baron Bruce's words in the March 1993 LoAR and apply them to this case, the title is taken from the Order of the Golden Dolphin, already registered to Atlantia. It is an ancient and honorable tradition to name heraldic officers after orders: Garter and Toison d'Or (Golden Fleece) are well-known medieval examples, while the classic Society example is (ahem) Laurel. [5/94, p.3] |
|
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 1st year) |
1994.02 | This does not appear to follow any period exemplars of which we are aware, nor does it match in style their other "Dragon's {part}" proposals. Order names in period seem to have been based on tangible objects (such as the Order of the Golden Fleece) or on abstract concepts which members of the Order embody (such as the Legion of Honor.) The Order of the Dragon's Dream doesn't appear to fit either of these categories. [2/94, p.19] |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 1st year) | 1994.01 | Neither has "friendship" been accepted as an alternate designator for "order" or "award". [1/94, p.16] |
| Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme | 1993.06 | [Order of Perseus] Unlike the cases of Compaignie Mercurie (returned Oct 92) and House Sirius (returned Oct 91), the use of a constellation name here neither infringes on an important location, nor appears to be a claim to extraterrestriality. On the first point, a constellation is not a place; it's a pattern of lights. On the second point, most constellations were named either for artifacts or after characters from ancient myth --- which, during the Renaissance, were also the source for Order names. Given the recent registration of the Order of the Pisces (LoAR of June 92), this is acceptable. (Order of Perseus (Barony of Carolingia), June, 1993, pg. 7) |
| Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme | 1993.05 | [L'Ordre du Papillon Argente d'Artemisie] Possible conflict was cited with the Papillon Pursuivant, registered to the Kingdom of the West. The original submission (Order of the Papillon of Artemisia) was returned Nov 90 for that conflict; the submitters have added the color. Many commenters felt that there was still a conflict: the designator (Pursuivant/Order of) is transparent, and explicitly worth no difference, per Rule V.4.d; and neither the addition of the adjective nor the branch name is sufficient difference.
The question is whether the combination --- the adjective and the branch name --- is sufficient difference. We've had conflicting precedents on this point: the Order of the Sable Thistle of Ansteorra was deemed clear of the Order of the Thistle on the LoAR of May 80, but the Order of the Golden Swan of Calontir was deemed to conflict with the Order of the Swan on the LoAR of June 88. Neither of those precedents, however, was made under the current Rules. Under current precedent, the combination of the adjective and the branch name is sufficient difference. This was ruled in the case of the Order of the Sable Lion of Caerthe (LoAR of Aug 90), which was deemed clear of the Lyon King of Arms. We might be moved to make an exception to this policy in extreme cases (e.g. the Order of the Noble Chivalry of the West, or some such thing), but in general it seems a reasonable policy to maintain. (l'Ordre du Papillon Argente d'Artemisie (Principality of Artemisia), May, 1993, pg. 2) |
| Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme | 1993.05 | [Order of the Radiant Rose of Atenveldt] The name conflicts with the SCA's Order of the Rose. Our general policy is that the addition of an adjective plus the territorial branch name is sufficient difference between names --- that is, a hypothetical Order of the White Star of the Middle would not conflict with France's Order of the Star. But we make an exception for the SCA Orders of Peerage, due to their universal application and importance within the Society. We suggest choosing some other noun for the order's name. (Order of the Radiant Rose of Atenveldt (Kingdom of Atenveldt), May, 1993, pg. 14) |
| Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme | 1992.10 | [Order of Black Widows] While I concede that the words black and widow are period words, the phrase black widow is a modern construction. As with the Artemisian Tank Corps (returned Feb 91), though the parts of the name may be period, the name as a whole is decidedly modern. In previous appeals, the submitters have made clear that the Order's name specifically referred to the black widow spider; and that's certainly how the name will be perceived. No evidence has yet been produced that the spider was known to medieval Europeans, or even to anyone prior to the 19th Century. (It didn't even get the name black widow until the early 20th Century.) Without such evidence, we will not register the creature, by name or in armory. (Kingdom of Trimaris, October, 1992, pg. 33) |
| Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme | 1992.10 | [Order of the Swan and Escallop] This is clear of [Order of the Swan] Per Rule V.2, addition of the phrase "and the Escallop" brings it clear. A similar argument brings it clear of the [Order of the Escallop]. (Order of the Swan and Escallop (Barony of One Thousand Eyes), October, 1992, pg. 4) |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) | 1992.04 | [Order of Black Widows] "Despite the contention in the LoI to the contrary, this name is indeed a conflict with Widow's Abbey per RfS V.2. Addition of an adjective is insufficient difference. Since we can grant no difference for the identifying designator (per V.4.d.), this is a conflict. As noted by Lord Batonvert, 'Abbey' in Widow's Abbey performs the same function as the word 'household' in the same position would. If the word 'household' is the designator in 'Widow's Household', 'abbey' is the designator in 'Widow's Abbey'. As for the argument in the LoI that a black widow is 'a thing, a critter, a two word noun', if the College were to have to consider this submission on those grounds alone this would have to be returned, since the name 'black widow' was not given to the spider until early in the 20th century (the earliest citation is 1927), well after the Society's 1600 cut-off date. (The arachnid is not itself native to the Americas, but was brought into this hemisphere in the late 19th or early 20th century from the Far East.)" (LoAR 4/92 p.24). |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) | 1992.02 | [Order of the <astrological sign>] "The name conflicts with the very well-known astronomical constellation and astrological sign." [This implies such things are protected] (LoAR 2/92 p.22). |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) | 1992.01 | [Order of the Legion of the Sword of Honor] "The order name here does not appear to follow any Period order name that anyone could find. The use of multiple nouns modifying other nouns creates a semantic nightmare. Depending on how one interprets the structure of the various phrases in its name, this could be considered to conflict with the Order of the Sword or with the Legion of Honor." (LoAR 1/92 p.14). |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) | 1991.09 | [Registering Ruantallan, Barony of. Name for Order of the Iceberg] While the English term "iceberg" is clearly post-Period, given the large number of cognates in so many northern European languages we feel that the name is probably acceptable. (LoAR 9/91 p.10). |
| Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd year, 1st tenure) | 1991.08 | "[In addition to the conflict problem] a more serious problem is that registration would imply the acceptance by the Society of an order, membership in which is based on gender. If we are not willing to accept an order all of whose members could only be male, we should not give our 'stamp of approval' to one whose members can only be female." (LoAR 8/91 p.25). |
| Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane | 1990.05.28 | While the name will be slightly tautological if the Barony uses the common reference "Companions" to describe members ("Companions to the Order of the Companions of the [Name]"), it is legal. (LoAR 28 May 1990, p. 1) |
| Wilhelm von Schlüssel | 1981.02.24 | With regard to conflicts between the names of orders ... the feeling was that the addition of an adjective was too close. Thus, the Order of the Green Tree would conflict with the Order of the Tree ... The difference of an adjective was marginally acceptable depending on the case involved. Therefore, the Order of the Rowan Tree and the Order of the Madrone Tree are not in conflict, but the Order of the Red Tree and the Order of the Madrone Tree would conflict, as they refer to the same thing under two different names. One method of avoiding conflicts between similar but not Identical orders is to add the name of the branch. Thus, the Order of the Tree of Allyshia (O.T.A.) would be sufficiently different from the Order of the Black Tree (O.B.T.) r assuming its full name was always used. WVS [35] [CL 24 Feb 81], p. 3 |
| Wilhelm von Schlüssel | 1981.09.15 | The household name conflicts with the Order of N. in the Kingdom of the East. WVS [52] [LoAR 15 Sep 81], p. 5 |